JB-SFC for February 17

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Events are moving quickly in Ukraine today. Please give this latest Batchelor-Cohen podcast a listen for a full update.

John and Steve spent a lot of time last evening discussing the situation in a town called Debaltsevo, where literally thousands of Ukraine-Kiev troops were encircled and trapped. In the hours since, a massive withdrawal has begun and President Poroshenko himself has gone on Ukraine television to admit defeat.

This is still a rapidly changing situation and I urge you to give this podcast a thorough listen.




kardnul's picture

Another piece on Cohen and ASEEES


Another article about Professor Stephen F. Cohen, and his wife, Katrina vanden Heuvel, who have been at the center of a controversy involving the Association of Slavic, Eastern European, and Eurasian Studies (ASEEES).

CPE's picture


The chatroom was great!


Turd Ferguson's picture

Debaltsevo coverage from RT


Keep in mind the source here...


Turd Ferguson's picture


ivars's picture

Dr Jerome=Putin

Putin- nothing new is happening. Full occupation of Ukraine's South East, some control over West Ukraine, then move into Kazakhstan ( later in the year) and may be Azerbaijan/Georgia. 

These cease fires after Munich -2 ( Minsk ) where Europe decided not to fight for Ukraine but appease are meaningless as each of them just established new Russian control zone and prepares ground for move forward. I do not even understand why they meet at all. It just gives away Ukraine faster to Russia. Appeasement. 

At the same time, USA are keeping just enough hopes alive in Ukrainians to provoke just that. USA needs to make Russia and aggressor, as it is easier to deal a more fatal blow to a shrinking Empire when it becomes aggressive -even temporarily ceding some territories in Europe and  Central Asia ( Chinese interest sphere) . So USA is happy, and will push for more action of the same kind. 

So all in all nothing new or not predicted. It is getting a little boring actually that is why I am not commenting, but also coming closer to home in its boring way- Baltics which I think Russia /Belarus will occupy next year, first half. 

Economically , Russia shall gradually move into state money printing instead of CB. But with their reserves, they seem not to be in a hurry there as well. Only they have overused finances from Budget in January for military spending, so at some point the cash flow will crack and to continue, they will have to move towards govt printed money. 

Turd Ferguson's picture

This is pretty good and it


This is pretty good and it confirms what we discussed last night...Namely, that a stalemate is the best possible outcome. Putin has no desire to see the NAF push onward toward Kiev and maybe...just maybe...the cease fire can hold for a while.


Silver Sooner's picture

Organized and Orderly Retreat

...from Debaltsevo:


Respectfully, that Bloomberg article is crap.  


Poroshenko has called for UN peacekeepers (of course, his army is in tatters)

A stalemate is NOT the best possible outcome--it is an unsustainable situation.  You don't get to set back at a distance and shell civilians for 7 months and then say "stop, stop!" when the tides turn.  That happened already last summer.  You allow the conflict to continue until one side no longer has the will to fight.  Otherwise, the root causes don't get resolved.  

It's still chaos around Debaltsevo, but the next few days will show the reality of the situation.  Ukraine has now lost about 50% of their combat capability.

Turd Ferguson's picture

Please let me splain...


What I mean is this...

Things were rapidly spiraling out of control over the past three weeks. If this represents a temporary stand-down, I'm all for it. I mentioned last night during the online chat that stalemates such as Korea and Vietnam never work and a protracted stalemate here won't work, either.

However, instead of a headlong rush toward increasing war, a temporary stalemate is just fine with me.

And I think we agree, SS, (though I do not intend to speak for you) that having the NAF drive all the way to Kiev wouldn't be a good idea and that Putin is very likely NOT in favor of this. It would invite/beg a significant, trumped-up US/NATO "response" and shit could get real...real quick.

Silver Sooner's picture


We agree and I would add that NAF doesn't have the means to go all the way to Kiev.  Can they take the original Donetsk/Lugansk Oblast boundaries?  You betcha.  Cross the Dnepr River and march on Kiev?  No way.

But things weren't "spiraling out of control"--maybe from the Ukrainian perspective, because they were getting their butts handed to them.  But the "situation" was fully "in control" and predictable for the last 3 weeks.  Anyone who visited this site knew what was happening, yet Poroshenko/Ukraine DID NOTHING!  Why did Ukraine's foreign "advisors" allow this to happen?  If we can see the situation develop from fly-over America, why didn't they?  The simplest conclusion is that they INTENTIONALLY left those guys there until it was too late even when the position was precarious. 

That being said, the primary antagonist in this whole situation has a lot of Mississippi Leg Hound in him and like Cousin Eddie said, it's best to just let him finish.  We've been in a headlong rush toward war, ever since the first cookie was handed out on Maidan Square over a year ago.  

So to your point about "response", here we sit with Ukraine's fighting forces in tatters.  (Yeah, there's plenty of tanks and men on paper, but as an effective fighting force, they have just been crushed.)  Poroshenko is now calling for peacekeepers.  He just signed the authorization for the 4th and 5th waves of mobilization on Monday.  There's already a VERY loud chorus of voices calling for Poroshenko's head amongst the Ukrainians.  We're now entering the 1-year anniversary of the Maidan "massacre" and the 2014 coup.  Poroshenko MAY have spirited his family out of the country recently.  The timing is ripe for a desperate move and/or a 2nd coup.

So I would say we are ALREADY at the precipice of U.S./NATO response in the form of "peacekeepers" and nothing convinces me that the primary investor has given up on his investment.  

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that a temporary stalemate is great.  But I think it's a small part of a larger strategy to put regime-change pressure on Kiev.  The stalemate itself just delays things.

flyinkel's picture

A Blackwater New World Order

Would this have all been possible without these gents?


We are spending 1/2 TRILLION a year on "private military" waging wars all over the world, going deeper and deeper in debt.

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