Practicality: Junk Silver vs. ASEs/rounds/bars

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Moiliili Quarry
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Practicality: Junk Silver vs. ASEs/rounds/bars

Forgive my ignorance. Been following Turd and the Turdites only since Feb or March or so. In a SHTF scenario, wouldn't it be more realistic to have large quantities of smaller money units via Junk Silver rather than 10 oz bars or even 1-oz rounds? I like ASEs for their legitimacy in all situations, but at that point, it might be worth double, triple or more and there might not be a lot of retailers eager to give change on an ASE for a piece of fruit or battery. (Unless fruit and battery costs go through the roof, which is definitely possible.) 

Any thoughts are appreciated. 

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:10
uptofreedom
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I've got more junk than

I've got more junk than anything for exactly the reasons you describe.  Smaller denominations are very important to have.  If you don't have much physical, junk's a great place to start.  Also, junk has the lowest premiums, so BONUS! 

jackmeoff
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My thoughts

For me 1 oz 999 bars or rounds are the best if you are looking to barter. I would say 90% was not bad and why not have some just in case but most 99% of the people I meet are too stupid to know what 90% of 1.00 is so it may make it harder to trade. Hell what is 90% of 87 off the top of your head. Not saying you are stupid and I am sure you can figure it out but most people just cant. Then again I think most people are stupid but that is just me.

PastTense
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I think there is always going

I think there is always going to be a fiat currency around; the problem is that it is going to be rapidly losing its value. So one might keep a week's worth to a  month's worth of expenditures in fiat, and the rest of one's wealth in gold/silver--and go to a dealer when you need to convert some gold/silver to fiat.

I just don't think there is enough junk silver around to supply the needs of commerce.

And in terms of buying/selling to dealers, junk silver has a worse buy/sell spread than Eagles/rounds/bars.

Moiliili Quarry
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  @ updtofreedom < thanks for

@ updtofreedom < thanks for confirming what i was guessing. I'll accept all the knowledge you got any time!

@ jackmeoff < Your name makes me feel weird, but that's all right. I have to say I agree with you that in a SHTF world, there will be even more ignorance than today. I saw an inforwars.com video yesterday of a guy at a Taco Bell drive-thru. He offered a 1-oz gold coin for two tacos. The cashier wouldn't take it. So he paid her with two $1 fiat bills. Yeah. 

@ PastTense < Do you think a combination of Junk Silver and divisible rounds will dominate bartering? If not, then what do you forsee? Thanks everyone!

Moiliili Quarry
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Here's a related question:

Here's a related question: How about current nickels and pennies? Nickels are worth 6.2¢ and pennies 2.7¢ (coinflation.com) ... but again, in a SHTF scenario, will enough people know the value of nickel and copper (and zinc)? 

Seems most things in this category point back to true silver coinage like ASEs, Mercury dimes, etc. 

Klingon
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I would be certain that

I would be certain that shortly after the SHTF, most people would become quickly familiar with the value of 90%, 40%, etc.

uptofreedom
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Moiliili Quarry wrote:Here's

Moiliili Quarry wrote:

Here's a related question: How about current nickels and pennies? Nickels are worth 6.2¢ and pennies 2.7¢ (coinflation.com) ... but again, in a SHTF scenario, will enough people know the value of nickel and copper (and zinc)? 

I think their value would hold up, but storage and transport can be problematic.  similar to gold vs. silver that way...   Even so, I think junk offers small enough denoms.  I'd guess bullets and food will be worth their weight in silver, seeds and non-consumable essentials worth their weight in gold. That's a lot of nickels.

Moiliili Quarry
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Agreed

Klingon wrote:

I would be certain that shortly after the SHTF, most people would become quickly familiar with the value of 90%, 40%, etc.

Thanks Klingon. I realize now that the odds of anyone using a 2009 nickel worth 6¢ would be slim in a world like that with $10 gas and $5 bottled water. 

Number 47
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Personally I have a mix of

Personally I have a mix of all kinds of silver and gold. In a true SHTF scenario I would prefer to have a bunch of scrap wedding rings. SHTF means a free for all, if you're bartering with 'your' wedding ring then I doubt anyone will be following you to find the rest of your stash, scrap jewellery is cheap and folks will think you are flogging the family jewels in desperation. if you walk up with a 1oz eagle it might well draw more attention than you were looking for.

I don't expect things to get that bad (and I'm planning for a war) but I buy bits and bobs as i see them. Diversification is my motto, I have big bars, numi coins, junk coins from around the world and bits of sterling plus plenty gold and silver rings, bracelets and other trinkets for trade if needs be.

Moiliili Quarry
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Transport

uptofreedom wrote:

depends, storage and transport can be problematic.  similar to gold vs. silver that way... 

With as much walking (riding bicycles?) as peope would be doing, you're definitely right. Might be a nice market for cargo shorts and cargo shirts (?). Clothes with stashed mini-pockets for coins. 

For people with a hundred 100-oz bars, different story. 

Eric Original
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My 2 cents

Probably about half of my silver is 90% coin, but it's not because I'm really think we'll end up bartering with it.  I don't.  I just like the stuff, and it's cheap, premium-wise.

As far as pennies and nickels, no thanks.  You can keep your life savings in a fanny pack if it's gold.  If it's silver you'll need a wheelbarrow and a strong back.  With copper and nickel you'll need a pickup truck, at least.

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esib100oz
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I buy dimes from provident

I buy dimes from provident metals when I want that 90%. Love the morgan and peace dollars though.

I think having a few dollars face in 90% is clutch, and then maybe a few big ass bars for when you want to swap for those pretty ladies that come once in a lifetime.

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Moiliili Quarry
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Scrappy

Number 47 wrote:

In a true SHTF scenario I would prefer to have a bunch of scrap wedding rings. SHTF means a free for all, if you're bartering with 'your' wedding ring then I doubt anyone will be following you to find the rest of your stash, scrap jewellery is cheap and folks will think you are flogging the family jewels in desperation. if you walk up with a 1oz eagle it might well draw more attention than you were looking for.

That's wise thinking. Now you got me thinking of picking up scrap wedding rings at pawn shops or wherever. Maybe even invest in a portable gold-metal reader thingy. 

Moiliili Quarry
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nickled and dimed

Eric Original wrote:

As far as pennies and nickels, no thanks.  You can keep your life savings in a fanny pack if it's gold.  If it's silver you'll need a wheelbarrow and a strong back.  With copper and nickel you'll need a pickup truck, at least.

If we get into a deflationary scenario, those nickels might be worth the haul. You're probably right, though. 

WmMck
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Metal in current pennies aren't even worth face

Only 1909-1982 Cent (95% copper) = 2.7¢ 

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David Morgan talks about Utah

David Morgan talks about Utah signing into law the use of G&S as legal tender on the most recent Keiser report. He said at this time only ASE's and ASG's qualify for a few reasons, mainly because they're strictly US Mint products.

So, I think if Utah is a success and other states catch on, it might be wise to have those specific coins on hand.

For me personally I have a little of everything including a 5 gallon pail (200#) of pre-82 copper pennies all the way up to 50 oz silver bars. But I don't view PM's as traditional "investments" as much as I do a defense against the Cartel and a way to preserve my and my family's future wealth. I don't know what will transpire in the next 10 years, but I know I holding toilet paper $ in the mean time is a surefire way to get burned by the time we do get there.

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MetalMike
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I'm with you Eric. I try to

I'm with you Eric. I try to keep about half my PM's in Silver and about half of the silver in pre-65 US Junk Silver coins. I like the fact that they are instantly recognizable and have a known weight and value. It isn't too hard to figure 90%, its about .715 X face X spot (allowing for a little wear). Another even easier way to calculate its value is $1.40 face = 1oz of .999. This works for everything but silver dollars. For some strange reason the mint decided to put a bit of extra silver in the ol' US buck and they come in at .7735 (AU or BU) or .77 for VG and better. So for dollar coins thats $1.30 to equal 1 oz of .999 or $13.00 face = 10 oz of .999.

So to make it easy for those new to US 90% silver

$14.00 face in pre-65 US silver (other than dollars) is roughly the same as 10 oz of .999

$13.00 face in pre-65 US silver dollars is the roughly same as 10 oz of .999

Simple

Metal Mike

Pax Argentum
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First up, if you don't have

First up, if you don't have your food, water, shelter and security squared away do that first. :-)
Plenty of great advice out there on these subjects. Personally, I like J.W.Rawles' site www.survivalblog.com but there are many others.

As with all 'investments' diversifcation is key.
If your world goes Mad Max, MS62 ASEs might not be as valuable as a box of .45acp or an extra Berkey filter element.
On the other hand, what if it's a long slow slide to 3rd worldliness? As Kilingon says above, the new economy will very quickly adjust to 'real' money once the fiat endgame has occured and those stacks of junk silver could be quite useful at the barter faire.

Pax

Aronnax
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Only type of Ag I'm aware of still avail. at or under spot

You can also get them from private parties (estate sale, inheritance, jilted wife, etc.) through Craigslist without having to worry much about counterfeiting issues or numismatic knowledge. Friend of mine just picked up  several hundred Morgans for $34.50 spot price by weight (as opposed to face value).

Downside -- less universally known outside of N. America I would think -- putting that to the test this summer.

Moiliili Quarry
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Yup

WmMck wrote:

Only 1909-1982 Cent (95% copper) = 2.7¢

Thanks for the correction. Got it mixed up. Maybe too optimistic.

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