Core Position of Gold and Silver in ounces( Your opinion)

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silversalmon
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Core Position of Gold and Silver in ounces( Your opinion)

What's a  Core position of Gold and Silver in ounces? What's your opinion? PLEASE don't tell me it depends on xyz factors, I'm only asking your opinion in ounces? Ciao!

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California Lawyer
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Core Position in Oz's

It does depend, greatly, on your circumstances. 

Here is what I do, just my $0.02.

I do believe physical silver is far too undervalued relative to physical gold.  Whether priced in Dollars, Euros, or what not, I do believe that silver has far more to go on the upside on a percentage basis relative to gold, and as such, I decided to hold a lot more silver than gold.  Plus, I asked that same question months ago on this blog, and it was near universal that it was a better decision to hold more silver than gold.  So far, my assessment has not changed one bit.  I do believe that silver will appreciate faster and higher, relative to gold.  I do also appreciate that at some point, it will be time to swap over some silver for gold.  With that asked, my silver to gold ratio, in ounces, is 200:1.  Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe I should be heavier in gold, who knows? 

I am trying to stay nimble.  I see that gold makes a nice steady progression upwards, while silver is just an erratic adrenaline rush.  Oh well, where there is risk, there is reward.  Silver will not go to zero, nor will gold.  If gold zooms way higher while silver does not, I will be shocked.  But if silver zooms higher but gold only keeps on its steady rise, I will be very happy.

Some time ago Turd did an audio interview series, and posted the recordings on his old blog.  I listened to them all, and took away many good lessons.  One of the lessons was that comparing gold to silver, gold stores wealth, like silver, but silver can be also used as a means for trade more easily than gold.  So, as long as you have both physical silver and physical gold, it seems that there is really no correct, definitive answer to your question other than it depends.

Hope this helps.

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retired pipefitter
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Retirement Stash of Silver

If you are looking to have a silver stash for retirement, you might be thinking along these lines: Back when silver coin was money in the U.S., a daily wage was approx. $0.10 in the 1800 through 1914 era. By 1950 it was around $12, and by 1964 I believe it was $28. These later years were not really representative of times under the U.S. gold standard.

If you believe as I do that silver will continue to gain against FRNs, or paper money, just pick a reasonable daily weight of silver that you might be able to live on when the present fiat system fails.

I would guess 1/2 ounce silver per day would keep you out of the mission, and maybe even living very well. If you expect to live 30 years in retirement, the stash should then be:

1/2 X 365 X 30 = 5,475, or approx. 5,000 Troy Ounces

At $40 per Oz silver, that would be a present value of about $200,000.

In 2002, you could have purchased the same amount of silver for $25,000.

If that amount of silver seems too small, consider the fact that if every millionaire in the U.S. wanted to protect themselves by buying 5,000 ounces of silver, only about 1/10 of 1% could actually do so. The silver market is that tight!

So if I could only afford 1,000 ounces, I would do it -- or even less.....

Eric Original
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100 oz Au equiv

I'm shooting for a debt free 100 ounces of gold equivalent (mixed Au/Ag).  Not there yet... :)

especially the "debt free" part.

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Sockeye
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pipefitter   nice analysis

pipefitter

nice analysis

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Smoke N Mirrors
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   Obviously there are so

  Obviously there are so many variables (i.e. age, income, cash on hand, net worth, etc).. for each individual that one cannot give a definitive answer for each individual.   Personally I cashed out half of my 401k and put it all into physical silver @<20 per oz.  I did this in the form of a interest free loan backed by my 401k.   At this point I would recommend having at least 50% of your net worth in gold/silver. 

For myself being young and having student loans etc, I have a negative net worth, so my plan is to continue to buy physical and just prior to the dollar collapsing (issuance of a new currency) I will exchange my physical metal for dollars to pay off my debt.   Any additional physical will go to real estate, in the US or outside.

Also I reduced my student loan payment for several years, (economic hardship) and Im taking that money and putting it into physical via Citi's 0% apr 18 month offer, to leverage my gains a bit.  The nice thing is my student loan is fixed at 1% with direct withdrawal, so I will let inflation help erode my principle.  

silversalmon
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excellent and well said! hat

excellent and well said! hat tip!

silversalmon
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same situation and plan for

same situation and plan for student loans.

grvdigga
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20 Years from now

I have a goal that I want give my son and daughter gifts on their 21st birthdays of 1000 oz of Ag and 100 oz of Au each (around 20 years from now). This would stand them in good stead for the rest of their adult lives and then some. They are babies now and I have to cover all the bases for them till then. So big sacrifice for me and the wife - our friends will laugh and pity us for that time as we take every extra cent and stack.

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The key is relative values.

Tough question. To me the trick to answering this question is in understanding your goal, and in what you believe will happen in the future. For me, my goal is slightly fluid, and expands depending on how things evolve, but in order my 'wants' are:

  1. Small Farm 20-50ac , 1-2 hours out of my city (Irrespective of collapse, it would make a nice retirement home and weekend retreat.).
  2. City working residence. If it turns out that housing is 'cheap' then I'll pick up a nice house about km from the CBD near a nice school.
  3. My 2 kids will need somewhere to live, and assuming the future is not as debt laden as my past, this will involve lots of savings.
  4. Pure investment, aka, I'm the landlord. Likely to be in a family trust of some kind.
  5. Retain a minimum of 30% of the metals, after (1)

So to get to this kind of goal, in my case, I'm thinking about how much the price of gold goes up to the destruction of debt bringing housing down (My cities property bubble has not popped yet, and FAR higher that it was in 2007). My focus is on working out how much the properties might go for as a 'cash price', assuming that credit if it exists has a high enough interest rate such that it's use does not drive values up. 

At the same time, I try to understand where gold and silver are going. Gold is the primary vehicle, silver is (to me) a speculative play that may or may not pay off as well. For me, by todays value, excel tells me I'm 36% AG, rest AU. 

GSR. I see silver has being volatile in a collapse. The bulk of silver mined is still used by manufacturing. Economic crash will likely kill the base metals mining, and much of the production, at the same time, demand from manufacturers will diminish. To many moving parts to calculate for me!

Models:

  • Jim Sinclair type model probably puts AU at 10k\oz. In this scenario, we would likely see the GSR close, and who know $500 AG. 
  • FOFOA type model would likely see silver drop away.Gresham's law suggests fiat would be the bad money. Silver would then join Platinum\Palladium as trade based on supply\demand probably relative to that group by value. Gold however would likely trade at 55kusd on todays values. Silver maybe 100?

Lastly, if you want more insulation from gold confiscation, then being slightly heavier in silver is a decent idea.

So, based on my goals and property sold at cash prices, my goal will be in the range of ~100 AU, ~2000 AG for the best possible circumstance above to be likely. Lets hope the can gets kicked a bit more and metals held down, so I can keep stacking, and I'm not anywhere near that amount!

This is why it depends! :) Beware counting your oz in dollars as well. You need to understand the physical<>physical relative values to plan, and that in itself is harder than it sounds, as the prices have been doctored for so long that a 1900ad house compared to a 2000ad house is now incomparable due to difference in quality. 

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ratio

It depends on xyz..cheeky

At the moment I'm somewhere around 60:40, Ag:Au

V

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silversalmon - Are you asking

silversalmon - Are you asking what to do with your student loans? How to pay them off?

Student loans are in the very worst category of personal debt that you can have. In fact, it is much, much worse than owing money to the IRS. You can't do an "offer and compromise" (like with the IRS), and unlike credit card debt, you can't get rid of it in a bankruptcy.

While it is important to own precious metals (for many reasons), it is probably wise to put the student debt repayment issue at the very top of your priority list for repayment.

Ask yourself how you can get the debt "moved" to a different category. If you can take out a large bank loan by getting a new mortgage on your home and use the proceeds to pay off the student loan -- you have moved the debt into a better category of debt. At least then, you could default on your home if you had to. You can't default on your student loan to make it go away.

If your home does not have enough equity for a refinance, maybe you could take a second job until the student loan is paid off.

I wouldn't put the student loan on a bunch of credit cards, as the interest rate would be very high.

The sooner you can find a way to get it paid off, do it.

If I were to pick the worst example of governmental "unintended consequences" it would be the government guaranteed student loan. When that horrible bill was passed, colleges and universities knew that no matter how high they raised student costs of tuition, housing, books, etc., that students could still GET THE MONEY. Competition went right out the window. Costs of a higher education went up much, much faster than average prices in the rest of the economy -- except maybe for health care -- but that is just another example of government interference.

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They're right.  It does

They're right.  It does depend on where you are, and where you want to be.

Personally, I think silver is going higher than even many here believe possible. Four digit silver is probably happening, and a ratio to gold of well under 10 to 1 is likely, even Eric Sprott admits this.

As far as how many ounces to have in your core, consider the following:

Think to yourself: what are my assets? How much stuff do I have? How much stuff do I want to have?  What percentage of my assets are currently in ounces?

I think it was Jeff Clark who said, "you know your core is getting close to being sufficient when Ben Bernanke's announcement of more money printing doesn't worry you in the least".  Think that's a great way to put it.

P.S.- Btw, if you have 1,000 oz you'll be able to retire in 2015 or beyond.  If you can amass 4,000 to 5,000 oz of silver, as others mentioned.....you'll be filthy rich. Robert Kiyosaki and Bix Weir have both said silver will reach $6,000 an oz.  Now, whether it reaches there or not, all it has to do is get within a fraction of that, and you're set.

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percentage of net worth

I agree with going for a percentage of your net wealth into physical rather than a set # of oz.

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The really easy answer

As much as you can of both. As others have said, I am heavier into silver, compared to gold. But silver per ounce is easier, and cheaper for me to stack. I would still like more gold.

Silver might have longer legs to run. But, I doubt gold will be standing still. Either metal will be money, a means of exchange. For those who don't read here and other places, they will cry that they have none of either metal.

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As much as you can possibly

As much as you can possibly afford of precious metals.  If you can, save up cash that will pay the required expenses for 6-12 months.  Nobody should ever save more than that in fiat currency.  Redirect that wealth somewhere else.

It isn't about raw #s of ounces.  The importance of how many ounces only matters to yourself.  If SHTF, by no means should you let anyone know how many ounces you own.  If you do barter with gold or silver, never carry your whole stash.  For many people, they own so much that they wish they could carry it... for others they are just starting and could easily place it all on their pocket.  It doesn't matter -- silver and gold are your escape from a depreciating currency.  They are not the best means of transaction because they are not decimalized to 2 places and easily physically dividable, but they certainly work regardless of economic climate.

Stop counting and just acquire... buy when you can and keep buying.

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My core holdings (which I

My ratio is 1 oz Gold / 30 oz Silver bullion.  I also keep $50 face value of junk silver.

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What if scenario

Am about 20% Au and 80% Ag. Even though silver is more speculative, I have a feeling that in the medium term it'll appreciate more than gold, and fortune favors the brave.

If you believe that precious metals at some point within your foreseeable future will at least triple in price per oz from where they are now, you obviously want to convert as much paper into shiny as you can, or any other asset you can find with similar prospects.

So if you had say $50'000 in fiat savings, at the moment with the markets as edgy as they are, I'd put aside 20k to cost average buy silver over the next few months to whatever number of ounces that works out, do the same with 10k in gold. In my forecasts I see pm mining stocks even more undervalued than the actual metals, so I'd suggest you keep 15k in cash to buy pm mining shares when the market hits bottom and thanx to ever rising metals prices their producers finally start getting their fair share of investment attention. Leaves $5'000, which I'd use to set up a decent vegie patch somewhere.

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Damn

grvdigga wrote:

I have a goal that I want give my son and daughter gifts on their 21st birthdays of 1000 oz of Ag and 100 oz of Au each (around 20 years from now). This would stand them in good stead for the rest of their adult lives and then some. They are babies now and I have to cover all the bases for them till then. So big sacrifice for me and the wife - our friends will laugh and pity us for that time as we take every extra cent and stack.

Wow, awesome!

I really started accumulating to help my son's future as well, but haven't had an oz goal like that.

When I first started buying silver, I used to visit coinflation.com. The one thing that resonated with me the most then and still does is the advice to "buy what you can, when you can." I don't have the mega hoard like some of you guys, but I do measure in lbs now, not ounces. It's fun to tell people how man lbs you have vs how many ounces just to see the look on their face. 

I haven't given up on fiat just yet and still have money in the market which is generating more future phyzz transfers (I hope). If I can make up the net difference in earnings from paper investments, then I'll pull my retirement account holdings. Right now, I cannot afford to take the hit.

As for my silver:gold ratio I think I'm at 50:1. That will come down a lot if gold goes looking for it's 150MA in the next month.

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I think we need to start

I think we need to start measuring our silver stash in kilo's :-)

Fried(e)

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Status: Retired carpenter,

Status: Retired carpenter, (60) wife retired school teacher.(59)

Cashed out my IRA in 03/04, paid the tax/penalty and bought the bulk of my silver at 6.00(ish) Added some along the way, last bought at 15.  Reached 5,000 oz goal few years back.

Sold off my self built rental properties at the peak of the housing boom, put the profits in gold, buying 200 oz.

Not buying anymore metals unless they manage to run it WAY down again in another "crash".

Still keep about 150k in various CDs, brokerage accounts, etc.

No debts, paid for 50ac farmstead, raise much of our own food, (cows/pigs/chickens/fish, vegetables, fruit trees) heat with wood, solar PV negates all our grid electric bill, water from our spring, sewer is septic tank. 

Vehicles: Pickup 05/Toyota  Car 2011 Subaru  Paid cash for both.

Bills are:

Food 200/mo, garbage pickup ( 15/mo ), property taxes ( 100/mo-1,200/yr ), phone/DSL 80/mo, DISH 50/mo, health ins 400/mo (high deductible HSA), gasoline, 150/mo, propane 50/mo  stove, water heating), misc 200-300/mo

Wife's teacher pension is 3,000/mo, which more than covers bills.  Mortgage income from a property we sold and self financed is 1,400/mo

Metal pile includes large stock of brass and copper jacketed lead, as well as 'tooling' to use them.

Life is pretty good at this point, but am prepped for it to go about any direction short of a nuke dropping right on top of me.

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