Gun Control post CT Massacre

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Turd Ferguson
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Gun Control post CT Massacre

Here you go. Have at it.

tread_w_care
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Repost from main page RE: Switzerland

Yes, high rates of gun ownership and very well educated/trained population.  Very low gun violence.  But Switzerland is not like America and is a bad example to bring up. 

Switzerland very strictly controls ammunition.  In fact, most people are not allowed to store any in the home:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Please stop bringing up Switzerland, it does not help our gun rights cause.

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opticsguy
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Could we see an epidemic of this kind of violence?

Consider the spike in Autism since the 90's.  Many of these kids are now entering high school and adulthood.  Between the bullying, the medications, and the lack  of social interaction the iPhone has given us, and you will have some angry young adults with very little ability to deal with their emotions.

Our society associates mental disorders with homeless people and hoarders.  It will be interesting to see if high-functioning Autism will be considered a factor, or will it be only the guns.

tread_w_care
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Other thoughts . . .

I've watched social media since the CT tragedy and have stayed out of the fray as much as possible.  I feel comfortable enough to share some thoughts here though. 

Boy the anti-gun winds are blowing strange and hard right now, duh?

I wish the mental health issue would get the same attention.

I'm not sure what was up with the mother, may she Rest In Peace, but, from the limited facts we have right now, she blew one of the most fundamental rules/laws of gun ownership, that is letting a minor or unauthorized person get access to them.  If Adam Lanza had the mental health issues claimed, his mother was grossly negligent in allowing him access to those firearms.  An obviously terrible mistake. 

I found Reason's pieces on this to be right on the money and highly recommend them for everyone, on both sides of this debate:

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/14/in-wake-of-sandy-hook-elementary-shootin

http://reason.com/archives/2012/12/15/4-archetypally-awful-reactions-to-sandy

http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/17/at-sandy-hook-memorial-obama-showcases-t

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zeroexperience
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Ammo in CH

The wikipedia article is misleading, the paragraph concerning ammo is for MILITARY issued ammo which is not issued anymore to militia. Any citizen and permanent resident who is allowed to buy firearms is also allowed to buy ammo (there are prohibited ammos such as armor piercing, tracers,...).

tread_w_care
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zeroexperience wrote: The

zeroexperience wrote:

The wikipedia article is misleading, the paragraph concerning ammo is for MILITARY issued ammo which is not issued anymore to militia. Any citizen and permanent resident who is allowed to buy firearms is also allowed to buy ammo (there are prohibited ammos such as armor piercing, tracers,...).

well dang!  Thanks for the correction.  I'm having trouble finding a good authoritative source on that, but plenty of forum posts et cetera seem to indicate it is indeed just the military issue ammo that is no longer allowed to be kept in the home.

So, carry on with Switzerland as a prime example of high gun ownership but very low gun violence.  Economic prosperity notwithstanding. 

Wonder how they stack up in Mental Health stats . . .

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The very first comment on this SGT article . . .

http://sgtreport.com/2012/12/so-many-questions-too-few-answers-was-the-sandy-hook-massacre-an-organzied-false-flag-operation/#more-127150

From Randa was eye-opening.  As he stated, there is no concrete proof any child died.

This morning, I listened to Obama's heart-rending (yeah) speech at the CT school (from yesterday), with the usual middle-finger salute, er, brow-wipe. 

He named off the first and last names of each adult killed. 

Then, he said the first names of each child, but no last name.

I wonder if every child will be buried in a closed casket?

Hope against hope, but while it would be a dirty trick against 2nd amendment rights, if no real children were actually involved, what a relief for a nation in grief.  Remember the movie, Wag the Dog?

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Just thinking...

You know.. you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time... sounds like SGT article is full of crap. With all the news agencys, all the reporters, all the chaos, witnesses (school teachers), kids that were involved   ... do you really think a "hoax" this big would stand up?                In answer to ..."there is no concrete proof any child died"  -  tell that to the parents.   Jeeezz..what a moronic statement.

Turd Ferguson
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If you're in this forum...

...but haven't read this yet, please do so now. Eloquently written and very well-stated.

http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=28764

Turd Ferguson
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Ancientmoney

You've been a member here for a long time and I value your input...but your "analysis" above is absolute 100% bat-shit crazy. You cannot claim conspiracy simply because of closed-caskets etc. The president only gave the first names of the children out of respect for the privacy concerns of the families! 

Please. There are so many other, legitimate things to be concerned about in this world. Calling this tragedy a "false flag" is a complete waste of time.

tread_w_care
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Facts herein

good stuff, worth a scan:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

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tread_w_care
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More

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-16/a-post-newtown-guide-to-the-gun-control-policy-debate#p1

parking this stuff here for posterity, to be used later

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Bastiat

Terabyte
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Come on come on come on...

Just why do we hear so much emphasis on gun control or closer monitoring of people with mental problems, but very little about changing the culture of America. With the glorification of violence on TV and in movies, plus those terribly violent video games so many kids are playing these days, what else can one expect. I know no one wants to accept the fact that this problem may well be due to the things we as a society have allowed to take root in the culture. Let's all take responsibility and get serious.

Time for some really radical changes, IMHO.

yangster
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Armed Citizen Stops Mall Rampage

On the same day as the CT rampage a shooter in the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon killed 2 people and seriously wounded a third before he was confronted by an armed citizen who allegedly caused the shooter to take his own life (I wonder).  http://www.examiner.com/article/media-blackout-oregon-mall-shooter-was-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen

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Denniger

If you believe that "gun control" (of any sort) will stop these events you're suffering from a severe case of logical fallacy -- or delusion.  The worst mass-murder in a school wasn't committed by Adam Lanza.  That distinction belongs to former school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, who got*****ed off about a property tax levy and detonated three bombs in Bath Township, Michigan, killing 38 elementary school children, two teachers, a handful of other adults and himself.  Nearly 60 were injured.

That murderer also killed his wife and set his farm buildings on fire just before he set off the bombs. 

Believe it or not, Bath Township got off light.  There were over 500lbs of additional explosives planted in the buildings that failed to go off; he intended to destroy the entire school and presumably kill everyone inside, but the second device failed to explode.

Nor do you need a gun to commit mass-murder in general.  One of the worst mass-murder events in US history was committed in 1990 with a gallon of gasoline; Julio Gonzalez, who was later convicted of arson and murder, spread gasoline on the entrance to the club and set it ablaze.  87 people died.  Not only did the gasoline cost far less than a gun, it is much easier to obtain.  Do you recall any hue and cry for the banning of gasoline, or even for gasoline-powered weed-eaters and lawn-mowers (or, for that matter, portable generators) -- the predicate items that for sane people compel them to buy and use a portable gas can, and thus make portable gas cans available to homicidal maniacs?

Next, let's talk about the school once again, because here we see an over-reliance on half-measures and "feel good" ideation as well.  The school locked the doors and required a buzzer to enter, which sounds reasonable.  The problem is that they didn't armor the glass in the immediate vicinity of the door, making possible a trivial forced entry.  A person intent on homicide doesn't care if he breaks a window (a petty crime) first.  You can't reasonably replace all windows with shatter-proof panes (e.g. wired-mesh glass that can be shot through but will not break in a fashion that allows entry) but you can do so for that glass in an entry door or in its immediate vicinity, and you can for small windows in and immediately in the vicinity of classroom doors.  You can also equip classroom doors with cylinder deadbolt locks that require a key from the outside to open, but can be operated without a key from the inside.  These enhancements, which are pretty inexpensive, would have thwarted the shooter's forced entry into the school and if he gained entry to the building would have prevented his entry into the classrooms.  There are reports that teachers had to use file cabinets and their bodies to barricade the doors; one was shot and injured doing so.  That's outrageous when a quality deadbolt-equipped door and metal frame bolted to the structure of the building costs only a few hundred dollars...........

more

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3090949

posterboy
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Facts

Facts cold and hard from the FBI

how is banning a firearm class that accounted for 323 total Homicides out of 300,000,000 people in 2011 going to do anything measurable....we know the answer( I am also sure not all of those 323 deaths were caused by the dreaded "military" style rifle ..some were just plain old huntin' rifles). Also Note that 2x as many were beaten to death than killed by rifles.....time to ban fists. Third and finally..after roughly 30-40 straight months of record firearms sales the murder rate has been steadily declining for the last 5 years...

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

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9mm versus Rifle as the weapon

Was wondering how the gun control meme against "assault weapons" would fit into this tragedy when low and behold about the third day the gun used was no longer a pistol and was now an AR platform rifle.  How could they mistake .223 casings for 9mm?

The rifle went from being in the trunk of the car to being the weapon used.  Don't ever let this fact disappear down the memory hole.  This whole thing stinks of false flag.  Wasn't the shooter supposedly meeting in the office before the tragedy?  Was he armed with a rifle then?  Does his mom have anything to do with the school?  She went from being a teacher killed in the classroom, to an EA to a volunteer sometimes at the school (last I saw).  Also how did the media get it wrong that he had also murdered his father at his home?

Whatever happened to the person arrested in the woods and led out in handcuffs?  A now scrubbed youtube video featured a lot of actual recordings from the event.

This doesn't add up.  The compliant media will parrot the official line.  It is up to true patriots and truth seekers everywhere to shine the light of truth on this tragedy.

Wasn't going to post anything but just can't stomach the outrage I feel over this.

Z

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Zoltan

I feel exactly the same way you do,  far too much of this does not add up.

this was definitely  a “false flag” event, that was custom tailored to fit Obama's agenda. 

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@Zoltan

I agree that the Sandy Hook thing lined up a little too perfectly to the agenda of the gunhaters. However I think the gun pulled from the trunk of the car was not an AR. I saw the video that was supposedly the officer retrieving the firearm from the trunk, and the way he worked the action seemed to indicate pretty clearly it wasn't the AR. He worked the charging handle on the side of the bolt and the AR handle is located to the rear of the upper receiver. As for your other questions, yeah I'm asking the same things and feeling the same kind of revulsion.

tread_w_care
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NRA Presser Today: Good Guys with Guns?

I expected a lot more out of them.  Disappointed.  THe proposal to secure schools has some merit, and is based in reality.  But they blamed video games, the entertainment industry and the press.  OK on the press.  But video games?

http://home.nra.org/#

And since the content matters so much less than the reactionary spin, judging from the headlines, this was not a good outing for the NRA.

Disclosure: I'm a member.  I think they need to chill the F out with the hysterical propaganda and emulate our friends over at Reason.com.

I'm also 100% for the good guys with guns protecting my kids when I can't.  I got no issues with that.  His points on secret service, sports stadiums and airports were right on the money, IMHO.

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Bastiat

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