collapse: really?

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DoctorRosenRosen
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collapse: really?

do you guys really believe this will all collapse?

if TPTB wanted collapse. they could have let it go on 9/11 or with Lehman or...

why are we going to be running thru the streets naked?

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:06
Patriot Family
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What type of collapse? 

What type of collapse?  Societal?  Economic?

A lot of uninformed and testosterone filled folks think there is the possibility of some sort of total collapse where we'll be setting up the next Bartertown and picking up weapons and ammo lying around unclaimed in the streets.  I'm not one of them.  I suppose nuclear wars, EMP/solar events and plagues are always a possibility and should be considered by ardent preppers but the possibility of those things creating an event large enough to throw us back a few hundred years is quite small.

I believe in the possibility of our economy going over the cliff - and landing on several ledges below as it continues it's downward descent over a period of years or decades.   I want to be well prepared for the ceaseless change that will be inflicted on us if we go through one or more evolutions of an economic collapse that brings forth at least one new monetary system for us.  To ignore that possibility is to ignore modern and ancient history.

The good news is that collecting supplies and skills as a prepper means that you are well on your way to handling most scenarios.  Not much different than what folks did to support themselves over the past few centuries of recorded history.  I believe they were simply called "smart and self sufficient".

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Fred Hayek
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collapse . . yes

77 economic collapse facts:  http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=20059

Dr. Rosen,   I think you're making the mistake of ascribing both too great power and too much sense to the powers that be.  The thing they cannot escape is that they have constructed an economic system which runs on debt.  Debt is continually increased and over decades, interest rates had to go lower and lower to allow for greater and greater debt to be serviced by the same or declining incomes and gdp.  

The powers that be cannot change these facts.  They may be largely running things but this is what they're running, a system built on debt.  Look at a dollar bill in your hands.  90 years ago, there was an explicit promise, one that was not made easy for anyone, but a promise nevertheless that a certain number of dollars could be exchanged for an ounce of gold.  The dollar had implicit value then.  it was 1/20 of an ounce of gold (or roughly that much).  Now, a dollar means nothing.  It isn't a placeholder for you getting actual gold.  It is debt.  Each dollar in your hand is debt.  When the government prints them it is creating debt.  For a long time, the U.S. gov't has gotten away with this.  The debt in the system is simply too much now.

And, quite seriously, why do you think the people who run this system want to let it collapse?  Why do you think they want to give up their status as the masters of the universe?  Why do you think they will *ever* voluntarily accept the means of their power being destroyed? 

If gold skyrockets and the stock market crashes and the various enterprises that the present "captains of industry" head are destroyed, what happens to them?  They're losers.  Their power is gone.  Much of their money is gone.  And many of the average people in whom they have no interest but only contempt, will realize how badly they've behaved.   Even with their residual wealth, things might become quite difficult for a John Mack or a Pandit or others.  Why in the world do you think they wouldn't try and play the game longer in the hope that SOMEthing comes along to save them?  

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dirk
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Go to your mall on Saturday

Go to your mall on Saturday afternoon. Look at the people. The 'collapse' is taken it one day at the time.

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rl999
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economic collapse begets socitieal collaplse

I like the line Patriot Family used "I believe in the possibility of our economy going over the cliff - and landing on several ledges below as it continues it's downward descent over a period of years or decades."  I think in the chaos/transition that ensues TPTB will make their bid for complete power by using a combination of propaganda, overt/covert martial law, offering us "alternatives" to "restore" things to how they used to be.

As for why it hasn't collapsed yet...this is probably the most profitable period in the history of mankind for TPTB, the banks, etc.  Now they get to buy up al the land that people are being kicked out/off of, they get to expand the debtors prisons.  The healthcare bill gives them the "right" to disarm most of America~a lot of the vets, and everyone taking certain medications.

bern
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Our current system requires

Our current system requires perpetual, exponential growth.  That's not sustainable.  The financial systems will require fundamental change.  Whether there is a planned/smooth transition (requires political will/consensus) or collapse/rebirth (yeah extend and pretend) remains to be seen.  A lot of people believe it's better to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.  Better safe than sorry.

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Dr. Sandi
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Collapse? You're soaking in it

This slow slide to economic Hell is like a train ride.

It isn't going to suddenly slam off the tracks.

Look around and notice more and more people joining the ride.

If your town is like mine, which is a pretty typical small city, there are more and more For Lease signs in storefronts of new and old buildings. Places that you probably never visited, plus a couple that you used to frequent.

Before the train ride started, one business would disappear and a new one would eventually move into the empty space. Now, that space seems to have been empty a really long time. Years. Maybe even long enough that the building doesn't look like anybody would want to move in there anymore.

Those empty buildings represent the lost equity of the former store owners, Mom and Pop America. And they also represent the lost equity of the building owners who are a mix of independent landlords and sleazy investment companies. Both groups are losing money and shedding jobs to stay in business.

In many cases, those empty buildings also represent property taxes that have gone into arrears, affecting municipal budgets. And the sales taxes and other fees that those dead businesses generated are also gone. As are the purchases made from OTHER nearby businesses that supplied those departed business with goods and services.

And you really have to wonder what happened to the people who worked in those businesses. Some of them probably found jobs at other businesses. Others didn't. And those who didn't are no longer adding to the economy.

Some of them have become homeless. You see a few of the homeless begging for money. But most of them aren't beggars any more than you and I are beggers. So the vast majority of the homeless are hidden from our sight. But they're out there, living day to day, unable to add to the economy the way they once could. And some of us could be there with them next month or next year if we don't plan ahead.

Meanwhile, the train keeps chugging toward economic Hell. Enough things could go wrong within a few days or weeks of one another that the thing suddenly derails.

But more likely, it'll just keep chugging ever slower as more people cling to the chassis, unable to afford a ticket. Slower yet as fuel gets more expensive and less available. Occasional stops where the rail bed has eroded from lack of maintenance money. Or the crew could get fed up with not being paid for weeks at a time because the train can't afford to operate forever with so many free riders hidden in the freight cars.

Yeah, this economic train could suddenly plunge off a collapsed bridge that nobody could maintain anymore. But my money is on a halting, agonizingly slow journey through the wilderness where only those who have prepared ahead of time will have any hope of seeing the next station.

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