After Currency Death

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Pellet
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After Currency Death

I thought I would start a thread on what it will be like after the fiat implosion.  Although no one really knows, I am interested in what people have to say.  Preparation and the new currency are covered in other threads, but I was hoping this thread could focus on what it will be like after the big event.

My thoughts/fears are as follows:

1. Infrastructure: Interruptions in the power grid, water and sewer service, nuclear power shutdowns, etc.  I know there will be at least some interruption but will it be temporary or extended?

2. Emergency services: Police, Fire Department, Ambulances, etc.:  I do not know to what extent these services will be affected but I am planning as if none of these services will be available.  Basic medical care will be severely impacted also.

3. Breakdown of society:  Fortunately I do not live in a major metropolitan area, which could be subject to roving gangs looking for food and worse.  The military will probably provide some order but not sure how much.  There will be anarchy, but the big question is what level of anarchy?

4. Breakdown of commerce, supply, etc.:  I expect grocery stores to empty of food quickly and other stores to empty of inventory.  Again, the question is how severe will this be?

5. Martial law:  Depending on how much control the military/new govt will exert, there is the risk that many/all of our current citizen rights will be violated and stuff will get confiscated that we do not want confiscated.

This is a pretty depressing post to write.  Maybe I am painting too bleak a picture.  But I would rather prepare for the worst than to get surprised.  

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:06
Ratatouille
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Local bartering

I tagged this website about some local bartering in Seattle that took place recently; you might enjoy it.

http://grist.org/living/the-barter-economy-coming-soon-to-a-backyard-near-you/

What I got from this, is that home brews and canned, liqueur-soaked fruits would be a good thing to become expert in...

In other words, select something to barter that appeals to those at the upper end of the bartering system, at least while the basics (dried veges/rice/eggs etc.) are readily available, and if possible, focus on items that are less readily available but could have broad appeal... I don't know, I'm thinking out loud (sort of), but it makes sense to specialize as much as possible in order to make yourself known as providing a market in some particular commodity.

My husband can do plumbing/pipefitting repairs... I suppose a service can be bartered as easily as a good.

(p.s. Depressing? Well, given that China now has direct access to purchasing U.S. bonds, thanks to Geithner, and also their newly stated desire to have the renminbi as the new world reserve currency, I think yours is a pretty timely comment!)

Silver Spurs
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Never fear.

Never fear, our fearless leader, Pres. Obama, to the rescue  (NDAA Act).  Gov't/Military will take over ... oops, I meant take charge, and be able with incredible bureaucratic common sense, confiscate and direct resources , belonging to the average citizen, to the well-being of the masses.  All will be well (esp. if you're "connected").   But, just in case, I would prep a bit - maybe not extreme like on TV, but plan on 3 months or so.    Since I have a small ranch and can butcher deer and cattle, grow some veggies, have my own water well, I don't worry alot.  I do think power sources (electric, diesel fuel, etc.) could be a problem however - possibly a rationing system set up after the initial breakdown.  Another concern is medical issues - esp. for elderly folks.   Transportation could be an issue as well (lack of fuel, rationimg of fuel, checkpoints for travelers, etc.)  A stash of cash/gold/silver probably wouldn't hurt either.    The answer I give to your question is: Breakdown completely, no   ... temporarily, probably yes  ... pain for most folks, yes  (less for those at least halfway prepared... as the old saying goes... Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it)   Looking at history and other countries, when financial meltdowns/depressions/ currency devaluations/ hyperinflation/ governmental changes occur the general populace struggles for awhile, then gov'ts settle in, because any gov't (while it may be a king, socialist, democracy, dictator) cannot stand for long with civil unrest and no stability, and will therefore do what it can to stabilize (maybe with peaceful means or sometimes not).  We'll get a preview with the European situations.   Best wishes,  Spurs

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Another thought, Pellet

Something else maybe to think about (it's probably been mentioned on another thread).  A local community system to help each other.  Example: our local church is starting a Disaster Response System (composed of 3 teams), involving first aid, disaster response (tornado, wildfire, etc), and information sharing/needs assessment.   Pretty cool.  I know many communities have these, you might check in your area  (local food banks, disaster response, etc.), or start something in your area.  Mainly in case the Infrastructure/Emergency Services/Police systems breakdown for awhile.

Pellet
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Good Response

Silver,

I agree that there will be a time of chaos (say around 3-6 months) before the "new normal" will take hold.  I am trying to get my arms around the "new normal", but no one really knows until it occurs.  That's the remaining scary part, once we get beyond the "chaotic period".  I am preparing as best I can.  One thing I have done is to have solar panels installed which will provide a little bit of power in case of interruptions.  

You are right about the community system.  Chris Martenson is a big proponent of this also.  As the event unfolds, a strong local community will go a long way to getting through the crisis.  Although I am in a spread out area I can probably do a better job of getting to know my neighbors.

Ratatouille, you are right that a bartering system will be a big part of the "new normal" and that is good advice to find something of value that I could provide that could be traded for other goods I may need.

Regardless of how much anyone prepares, it is going to be a difficult time with a lot of suffering, but it is what it is.  One of the good things to come out of it will be the end of the current screwed up financial system that exists now and the political system that is proving to be helpless in being able to stop the inevitable.

I believe that the big event is about a year away.  In addition to precious metals, I think owning stock in food producing companies would be a good way to protect yourself for the future.

Pellet

Silver Spurs
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Hey Pellet,

I agree.  I follow Chris Martenson as well, and think he's pretty much on track.  Hope things don't get too bad, but some preps never hurt.  You're right, "new normal" is unknown until it's here,  but history provides keen insight if studied with discernment and unbiased presuppositions.   (Stock in food producing companies is one thing I'm considering, along with G and S, but wondering about nationalization/confiscation by gov't, hmmm....) - Spurs.

treefrog
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somethng else to consider

"Stock in food producing companies is one thing I'm considering..."

consider some land capable of food production, seeds, fertilizers, equipment, fuel supplies,  practical experience, etc.  this might pay off in terms of personal survival if things get really severe.

a couple of acres and a rototiller, or a couple hundred (more?) acres and a tractor. 

if the supplies of diesel fuel run short, the trucks stop running.  when the trucks stop running, the shelves in the supermarket get bare.  high prices are one thing, but when the shelves are bare, price is irrelevant.  even a krugerrand won't buy a can of beans from an empty shelf.  it may get really ugly in the metro areas.

i think it likely there will be a period (six months?  a year or two?) when things get to crisis stage.  then a new stability will manifest itself - at a MUCH lower standard of living - and a long slow period of reconstruction from there.  how bad will the crisis stage be?  mad max?  something less severe?  no way to tell the future, but i think we'll have an opportunity to find out... if we are among the survivors.

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stalking wolf
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It will be what you make of it.

If worst comes to worst, do not fight.  Become invisible.  Having a firearm is only necessary if you are visible.  Carry your Gold, bury your silver and come back if/when the smoke clears.  Patience will be your weapon.  Becoming invisible means eating, slugs, worms, inner layer of tree-bark(not all tree's), sleeping in a squirrel house.  Lit fires only at night, being kindled in a hollow of course.   1 Meditation in the bush, is worth 2 paranoid glances across your toosh. 

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rl999
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Groups will prosper

Those who have the foresight to prepare, and especially those groups with a broad range of skills will prosper.

My theory is to look at how small towns and communities lived and functioned.  A doctor.  A vet.  A sheriff.  If a squad or group of 10-20 can cover all of the necessities for life they can also work out a division of labor - farming, medical, security.  Going it alone has it's advantages, but everyone has to sleep.  While your out fishing/gardening who's guarding the sleeping quarters?

Fred Hayek
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How far outside of a city do you have to be . .

Along the lines of this discussion, I was wondering what folks thought was the answer to this question.  I've heard a read a lot of people alert to what's going on and what might happen suggest that it will be *extremely* unwise to be in a major city when the SHTF.  But, given the nearly seamless segue in most metropolitan areas from inner city to outer city to inner suburbs to outer suburbs, how far out from a city center does one have to be to not be in city as far as this piece of advice is concerned?

I've only heard one person put forth an actual number and that was Bill Holter at MilesFranklin.com who suggested that one should be at least 30 miles out from the city center to try to avoid the repercussions of a collapse on a dense population. 

What do folks think?

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Pellet
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Where you live

Fred,

I am part way through Ferfal's book "Surviving the Economic Collapse".  Not a bad read so far.  I was going to post an update when I finish it.  In any case, he says that homes in very rural settings are actually more vulnerable since they can be targeted more easily without neighbors noticing.  He says the dangers of City living are not as bad as everyone thinks and as long as you avoid the looting, etc. you will be fine.  He also says the suburbs are not a bad option since you have neighbors who will look out for you.  So there are a lot of different opinions out there.  In spite of Ferfal's position, I am still leery of being in a very urban area since things could get ugly fast.  In a suburb, you would be safer although you would have to figure out how to deal with a steady stream of people knocking on your door asking for food.

Stalking,

Disappearing is an option but not for everyone.  To pull that off, you need to be experienced in camping and wilderness living- not something you want to take on for the first time when the need arises.  Eric Rudolph was able to avoid a massive FBI manhunt for five years by living in the wilderness in southwest North Carolina.  He finally got caught because he was raiding dumpsters behind a grocery store. 

rl,

I like your analogy about the function of a small town or community- the challenge is finding the various skill sets within a reasonable distance of where you live.  Most of the people I speak with have no idea what I am talking about when I try to describe what is ahead.  A doctor would be great to have in the community, but they are pretty scattered and even then you have to get them to understand what is ahead.  Creating a specialized community to weather the storm  really takes about ten years of planning, and a lot of us (me) have only been planning for a year or two.  I am making a lot of excuses, but at least this gets me thinking about how to plan for a better community in the future.

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To expand on what pellet said...

Ferfal is actually great advice on preparing for a collapse. One thing that people overlook is that he specifically mentions is everything doesn't happen at once. It's not like you will wake up one morning with no electricity, water, sewage, and have to high tail it out of town. Things happen in STAGES and MILESTONES. Things break down over time. When you wake up and see that the currency was devalued 30%, that's a milestone. It doesn't end there though, it's just a step.

Maybe price controls come 6 months later. Who knows, but the point I think is that unless there is a major catastrophe (earthquake, tsunami, nuclear, unforeseen Lehman etc), the economy will slowly grind to a halt. We're seeing it right now with deposit rates in Europe going negative. That's a milestone in my opinion. China and other countries are setting up their own currency swaps. That is a milestone. It takes time is all I am saying. I used to think it could happen anytime, but more I think about it, this could be a long grind over 5 years at least before major economic changes go into effect.

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Fred - I think it depends on

Fred - I think it depends on the level of collapse.

If it's a slow, somewhat predictable devaluation of currency, then I think there where be enough of a support mechanism popping up to support local economies.  That could be barter transactions, town fairs, farmers markets, etc.  You'd also see some attempt at government price controls and regulation of commodity supplies like gasoline.  In that case the suburbs or semi-rural living might be fine.

If it's a true collapse that happens very rapidly, i.e., due to a natural disaster, EMP strike, plague, etc. - then I for one would not want to be within 150-200 miles of any major population center.   There are way too many people on food aid in  our cities and suburbs as it is, and they don't tend to stock up a pantry.  I don't see how you can avoid wide scale theft and violence.  A lot of people talk about living that far out, but it takes a lot of preparation and knowledge to be self sufficient.  99% of the people who talk about it don't have land, dwellings or even the most basic necessities secured - including me.  We have a location we can go to in such an event, but we don't own it.

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@patriot family

You absolutely nailed it: 99% of the people who talk about it don't have land, dwellings or even the most basic necessities secured.

12 years ago I was one of these folks. Lived in yuppie central in California. Realized just how silly my life was and moved to a little town in South Texas. Now I have a defensible perimeter, neighbors who care and know my name (!!!), and am sustainable in a collapse. 

Best move I ever made.

There are those who talk, and those who do. The talkers are coffee table cowboys. The doers just put their head down and push like good people who are bound to the soil.

Funny bit: got a phone call the other day from a friend in Los Angeles. He was slurping on a Starbucks and noshing a bagel so he decided to call and heckle me in a good natured way. At the end of the discussin he asked me what I was doing. "Feeding the cattle". The next words convinved me my friend was too far gone to be saved: "what the heck you gonna go with COWS?"  My answer: "Eat them. Duh"

Every time I think the cities might be okay, I will remember this discussion. :)

Patriot Family
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Now that is a GREAT analogy. 

Now that is a GREAT analogy.  I have had similar discussions about prepping with family members un in the Northeast who ask why in the world we'd want to have more than a couple weeks of food stored?  Why we collect necessities instead of stuffed animals? Why aren't we moving back up there to be closer to family and getting in some beach time?

Roark, we're trying to move in the same direction as you.  We are well prepared to ride out a year of turmoil, but beyond that is where land and self sustainment comes into play.  We were well on our way there, probably 12 months out from buying something, but then I lost my job.  No luck in finding anything since last March.  We are starting up our own web based supply company, and we are 90%+ of the way to going live.  But I suspect it will just pay the bills for the first year or two.  Not everyone wants to buy survival knives, grain grinders, freeze dried food  and other prepper related gear, and we're going to have to compete with 100 other similar sites out there.  The good news is that if the SHTF in a big way, I can absorb any remaining inventory for family/group use.

In short, we all see what's coming, and I feel like I got into a bad spot from an employment standpoint when I should be packing money and PMs away at a frenetic pace.  We are just going to need to trust that God's plan includes going out on our own and building a sustainable business.

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