Iran / Israel

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Moderator Jane
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Iran / Israel

Topic to discuss the potential Iran / Israel conflict.

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:02

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ClinkinKY
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For All Those Who Profess That Iran Just Wants To...

..".GivePeace A Chance".

Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel "Mostafa's Ultimate Goal"

TEHRAN (FNA)- The wife of Martyr Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, who was assassinated by Mossad agents in Tehran in January, reiterated on Tuesday that her husband sought the annihilation of the Zionist regime wholeheartedly.

A1122546.jpg

"Mostafa's ultimate goal was the annihilation of Israel," Fatemeh Bolouri Kashani told FNA on Tuesday.

Bolouri Kashani also underlined that her spouse loved any resistance figure in his life who was willing to fight the Zionist regime and supported the rights of the oppressed Palestinian nation.

Iran's 32-year-old Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan Behdast, a chemistry professor and a deputy director of commerce at Natanz uranium enrichment facility, was assassinated during the morning rush-hour in the capital early January. His driver was also killed in the terrorist attack.

read more: http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010175602

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ClinkinKY
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Thanks Moderator Jane

I just get tired of the "Iran just wants nuclear technology for peaceful purposes" crowd. This is from an Iranian site. Good decision.

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Transformer
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reply to KlinkinKY Submitted

reply to KlinkinKY

I think what you might be misunderstanding about the statement of the guys wife is what the word "Zionist" means in the middle east.  I can tell you this, it does not mean "Jews" or "Israel".  I have Jewish friends who make this mistake all the time.  Israel itself is very divided on this issue, just as we are here.  I think the closest word we could assign to Zionist, would be Necocon.   I love America, but I do not love the Neocons and their fascist policies.  (not that the dems are any better)  First and foremost, the Neocons are war mongers, as was very evident if you watched the  debate this evening.  Romney, Gingrich, Santorum were divided on everything and accusing each other of all kinds of sins.  But when the subject of war came up, they were a united front.   Neocon war mongers.  The only other view was from that weird guy Paul. 

Now if you went back through what I just said and changed some of the names and substituted Zionist for every time I said Neocon, you would have an idea of what she was talking about.  In the financial world, Zionist also means Rothschild power, Rothschild control, but it definitely means war mongers.   The whole situation is an enigma, because, to look at how the jews were treated in Germany, and then see how Israel is treating Palestinians, it just doesn't make sense that the Israelis could do that.  It is my understanding, and I think the understanding of many in the ME, that most Israelis do not want to treat Palestinians that way, it is the Zionists.

You might ask yourself how an Iraq woman who had her husband killed for no particular reason by American forces might feel about it.   Do you think she would make the distinction of wanting to wipe out all Americans, or just Neocons?  I think this Iranian woman was responding pretty sanely, given her circumstance.

But fear not, with the might and right of the US of A, we will overturn the current regime in Iran and stop their terrorism.  It will be a good thing for them, because, just as we have done in all the other arab countries we have attacked, we will bring democracy and freedom to the Iranian people!!!

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OK Transformer

This is going to be my one and only reply. Firstly Neocon is a tired and overused term. (Doesn't it mean former liberal who now leans conservative?) At any rate, the apologies for the Islamists who have professed nothing but their desire to "drive the Jews into the sea" are lame. Regardless of the scenario you present, have you ever seen the "uncensored" videos of life in Gaza of the Palestinians?  (Beautiful malls, top notch medical care, provided by the Israelis) Have you ever stopped to wonder why the Israelis have checkpoints when suicide bombers try to cross every day and kill innocent people? Please, take your left-wing propaganda to someone who doesn't do the research.

We can simply agree to disagree here because I'm done.

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stephanie
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Zionists are not NeoCons

Transformer wrote:

I think what you might be misunderstanding about the statement of the guys wife is what the word "Zionist" means in the middle east.  I can tell you this, it does not mean "Jews" or "Israel".  I have Jewish friends who make this mistake all the time.  Israel itself is very divided on this issue, just as we are here.  I think the closest word we could assign to Zionist, would be Necocon. 

How on earth is wanting to have your own homeland, after being hounded and almost exterminated in other countries, the same thing as being a NeoCon? Not to mention, there are many different flavors of Zionism. I seriously doubt most Jews in Israel are anti-Zionist, otherwise they wouldn't be living there. 

Transformer wrote:

In the financial world, Zionist also means Rothschild power, Rothschild control, but it definitely means war mongers.   The whole situation is an enigma, because, to look at how the jews were treated in Germany, and then see how Israel is treating Palestinians, it just doesn't make sense that the Israelis could do that.  It is my understanding, and I think the understanding of many in the ME, that most Israelis do not want to treat Palestinians that way, it is the Zionists.

The so-called "bad treatment" of the Palestinians is a lot of propaganda, much of it perpetrated by the far left, which for whatever the reason took on Palestine as an issue many years ago. This never made sense to me given the huge amount of egregious affronts to human rights, particularly against women, in totalitarian Islamic countries. The only thing I can figure is that the far left hates conservatives, who tend to be Christian, so the far left likes to side with Islam in an effort to take Christianity out.

What the left doesn't tell you is that the rest of the Islamic world doesn't welcome the Palestinian refugees but shuns them, probably because they purposefully want to stir up hatred against Israel.

As for this Zionist = Rothschild nonsense, it is unfortunately put forth by a lot of dubious conspiracy theorists (like Rense). These are some of the same guys who blame the Vatican for everything. If you step back and look at it objectively, what they really seem to be about is taking down Judeo-Christianity. 

Transformer wrote:

You might ask yourself how an Iraq woman who had her husband killed for no particular reason by American forces might feel about it.   Do you think she would make the distinction of wanting to wipe out all Americans, or just Neocons?  I think this Iranian woman was responding pretty sanely, given her circumstance.

Are you aware a good number of Iraqis were thankful to George Bush for taking out Saddam Hussein? Seriously. Not all, but a good number. Watch the "Dreams of Sparrows" documentary for a more balanced view.

Transformer wrote:

But fear not, with the might and right of the US of A, we will overturn the current regime in Iran and stop their terrorism.  It will be a good thing for them, because, just as we have done in all the other arab countries we have attacked, we will bring democracy and freedom to the Iranian people!!!

Yes, except that Iran already went through their "democratic" revolution in 1979 and they supposedly have a Republic now.

So what's the difference between the Zionist Jews and fundamentalist Muslims? This:

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alabama develoing nuclear weapons

in 1994 someone at the aipac convention told me iran could have nukes within 5 years.  considering the country had recenlty concluded a brutal war with iraq being attacked by chemical weapons etc -  who'd blame them for this?  

its now 2012 - if ran wanted to make a bomb they could have already done so. dont you think they could buy some stuff with a few days worth of oil?

until the american secretary of state goes before the un wit a powerpoint presentation -  i wont believe there are nuclear weapons  being made. I need at least thre slides  worth of detailed information, preferably  in three bullet points per page in 20 point font.  and a picture. 2 picutres at least.

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Iran is laying the groundwork for making nuclear weapons someday, but is not yet building a bomb and called for continued diplomatic and economic pressure to persuade Tehran not to take that step.

As he has previously, Panetta cautioned against a unilateral strike by Israel against Iran's nuclear facilities, saying the action could trigger Iranian retaliation against U.S. forces in the region.
---------------------

Stephanie - SO CALLED bad treatment . i was glad to put down my beverage. seriously funny.  even israelis dont try to claim this.  casually read haaretz and you cant make this claim in good faith.

http://www.cpt.org/work/palestine

http://www.merip.org/

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depends on who you believe

SushiSioux wrote:

Stephanie - SO CALLED bad treatment . i was glad to put down my beverage. seriously funny.  even israelis dont try to claim this.  casually read haaretz and you cant make this claim in good faith.

Given the atrocious state of human rights for women, girls, homosexuals, and Christians in fundamentalist Islamic countries, and the extent to which these countries teach their children to not only hate but to murder and destroy all Jews and Israel, I find the outrage over Palestine to be a bit over-the-top if not hypocritical. I have had quite a few friends from Israel; two currently who are extremely left-wing to the point of Communist and who lived in a Kibbutz for quite a while, and if there was some Nazi-level stuff going on by Israel they most assuredly would have said something to me by now and made it one of their pet issues. So sorry, I'll believe them before I believe a few people on this website who clearly have an anti-Israel agenda.

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Brava Stephanie!!

That is all.

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MisesFan
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Wow - the level of ignorance

in this thread is astonishing. 

History.....those who fail to study it, are doomed to repeat it.  Please read this editorial, by Rothbard (who is Jewish). 

http://mises.org/journals/lar/pdfs/3_3/3_3_4.pdf

From the article:

Under unbelievably intense pressure from the United States, the UN--including an enthusiastic US and USSR—reluctantly approved a palestine partition plan in November 1947, a plan that formed the basis of the British pull-out and the Israel declaration of existence on May 15 of the following year. The partition plan granted the Jews, who had a negligible fraction of Palestine land, almost half the land area of the country. Zionism had succeeded in carving out a European Jewish State, over Arab territory in the Middle East. But this is by no means all. The UN agreement had provided (a) that Jerusalem be internationalized under UN rule, and (b) that there be an economic union between the  new Jewish and Arab Palestine states. These were the basic conditions under which the UN approved partition.

Both were promptly and brusquely disregarded by Israel-- thus launching an escalating series of aggressions against the Arabs of the Middle East.  While the British were still in Palestine, the Zionist para- military forces began to crush the Palestinian Arab armed forces in a series of civil war clashes. But, more fatefully, on April 9, 1948, the fanatical Zionist-Revisionist terrorists grouped in the organization Irgun Zvai Leumi massacred a hundred women and children in the Arab village of Dein Yassin.

<More info on the terrorist org Irgun - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun_Zvai_Leumi

By the advent of Israel's independence on May 15. the Palestinian Arabs, demoralized, were fleeing in panic from their homes and from the threat of massacre. The neighboring Arab states then sent in their troops. Historians  are wont to describe the ensuing war as an invasion of Israel by the Arab states, heroically rebuffed by Israel, but since all of the fighting took place on Arab territory, this inter- pretation is clearly incorrect. What happened, in fact, is that Israel managed to seize large chunks of territory assigned to the Palestinian Arabs by the partition agreement: including the Arab areas of Western Galilee. Arab west- central Palestine as "corridor" to Jerusalem, and the Arab cities of Jaffa and Beersheba. The bulk of Jerusalem--the New City--was also seized by Israel and the UN inter-nationalization plan discarded. The Arab armies were hampered by their own inefficiency and disunity and by a series of UN-imposed truces broken only long enough for Israel to occupy more Arab territory.

By the time of the permanent armistice agreement of February 24, 1949. then, 600.000 Jews had created a State which had originally housed 850,000 Arabs (out of a total Palestinian Arab population of 1.2 million). Of these Arabs. three-quarters of a million had been driven out from their lands and homes, and the remaining remnant was subject to a harsh military rule which, two decades later, is still in force. The homes, lands, and bank accounts of the fleeing Arab refugees were promptly confiscated by Israel and handed over to Jewish immigrants. Israel has long claimed that the three-quarters of a million Arabs were not driven out by force but rather by their own unjustified panic in- duced by Arab leaders--but the key point is that everyone recognizes Israel's adamant refusal to let these refugees return and reclaim the property taken from them. From that day to this, for two decades, these hapless Arab refugees, their ranks now swollen by natural increase to 1.3 million, have continued to live in utter destitution in refugee camps around the Israeli borders, barely kept alive by meagre UN funds and CARE packages, living only for the day when they will return to their rightful homes.

RE: neo-con

http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=irving_kristol_1

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How to end a debate...

...use the word "Nazi" (Godwin's law) or label your opponents "ignorant". Done.

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colonization

It doesn't matter if its Spanish moving to, ethnically cleansing and occupying Mexico in 1492, French moving to, ethnically cleansing and occupying Iroquois territories in the 17th century or Jewish Europeans occupying and ethnically cleansing Palestine in 1949, its all the same thing. Those displaced are compelled to hate their occupiers and become its enemies. In North America, the European conquerors had the advantage of superior education, technology and numbers. The beliefs and cultures of Europe were marketed and to some extent embraced by the vanquished. The Muslims and Christians that were tore from their land in Palestine were not offered and certainly did not accept Judaism. The education/cultural level of the Palestinian Christians and many of the Muslims is on par with occupiers. There are many more Arabs than occupiers. It is not surprising that they would say untrue things in their campaign to retake their homes and fortunes. This is how it is done. Myths that are more compelling than the truth are used universally to accomplish change. Unless those in power become less extreme, here will be an eventual cleansing in which many Christians, Jews and Muslims die. The most vicious and aggressive will win here, not the most honest or pure. So far the Zionists are winning.  That the vanquished are fighting back in any way possible is hardly surprising, nor is it evil. As tempting as it is to take sides I believe disengagement from this mess by those not personally affected would be a first step in allowing a permanent resolution to take place. If the Jews are strong enough to hold onto what they have stolen than it is theirs..

MisesFan
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Why are you so defensive....

at the word "ignorant"?  Being ignorant is nothing to be ashamed of.  If one can realize that they are ignorant, then an opportunity for learning is identified.  If one refuses to acknowledge their ignorance........how does that saying about leading a horse to water go???  

The easiest way to lose a debate, is to allow your ego to take control of your argument.

Any opinions re: the Rothbard's analysis?  

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Stephanie

When the Nazi concentration camp general got home from work to his wife did they chant satanic hymns and lap up warm "juden blood" as an appetizer before feasting on roasted juden fetuses as a main course?  Or did he get home kiss his wife, pat his children on the head, complain mildly about the late hours at work and all the paperwork, then sit down to a nice meal and chat civilly with the odd joke.   Which family is most like your Israeli friends?

Palestine, or what is left of it, is no better than a concentration camp.  And really you dont have to look any farther then Operation Cast Lead to confirm this and how it works.  But facts might be a "a little of the top."  So I guess 800 dead women and children is "a little-bit-over-the-top"?  Cute comment Stephanie.  Yeah Steph look at the primitive people fire off those shitty little katyushka bottle rockets and throw rocks as  white phosphorus, flechette weaponry, DU, and high tech bombs rain down on them.  Pitiful creatures really.  How many IDF died during that battle?  Probably dont know so I will tell you:  13 -- at least 8 from friendly fire.  Oh yeah add another 400 males over the age of 16 to the 800 number.  So a total of 1400 vermin.

Full disclosure:  I dated a South African jew for 4 years, wore a yarmulke, been to a synagogue, have  jewish/Israeli friends.  Have zero Palestinian friends. 

Have you been to any of these countries that you make blanket statements about?  Blanket statements like:

Given the atrocious state of human rights for women, girls, homosexuals, and Christians in fundamentalist Islamic countries, and the extent to which these countries teach their children to not only hate but to murder and destroy all Jews and Israel.

Your whole post oozes ethnocentric naivete.  But then I CLEARLY have an anti-Israel agenda.   What agenda is that?  Pray tell.

I met an Israeli travelling through the southern Palawanese islands in the Philippines and I was asking him about the Litani River.  He was shocked I was even aware of the contoversial tiny "creek" and admitted that the entire conflict is over resources (esp water and land) and said this, verbatim: "that it is not about right or wrong but has more to do with a game of chess and  that the Israeli side of the board had multiple queens, bishops, and rooks but the Palestinians hardly a pawn.  Who do you think will win this game of chess?"   He wasnt smiling or anything just a matter of fact.

What have your Israeli friends told you about Operation Cast Lead?  If they are in your age group they probably served in it.  It is curious how you identify with so many marginalized groups but dont see the plight of some of the most crushed on the planet.   Might be time to get a passport and do some travelling if you are able.

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nastyness

Wife of Assassinated Scientist: Annihilation of Israel "Mostafa's Ultimate Goal" 

A lady in Iran recently had her husband murdered by a hostile power. She is likely grieving and angry as any of us here would be if a terrorist put a bomb on our spouse's car on his/her way to work. Anything she says at this point is likely very passionate and exaggerated. Perhaps after this extreme attack on her family she is expressing her feelings and strengthening them by attributing them to her late husband. What this statement proves is that a husband/child/father has been murdered and folks left behind are upset. Use of what gets said in such situations to justify more of this sort of violence is unspeakably evil.  

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