Thread of Non-Faith ... Athiest/Agnostic support discussion

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TPaine
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Thread of Non-Faith ... Athiest/Agnostic support discussion

I don't ascribe to any recognized religion.  IMO they were all cooked up by Men with agendas. I still kinda believe in "a" god, but it's not the grandfatherly figure with the flowing white beard that most envision. My vision of god is more of a cosmic baker, fired off the big bang with a flick of his finger and then sat back to watch the show. Kind of like a kid with an ant farm.

I was raised Christian. Mom is Catholic and Dad is Episcopalian, participated in both growing up, went to Sunday School and R.O.C.K. Didn't question too much and considered myself a "believer". Then my younger brother died. He was hit at a high school party, which popped an aneurysm and put him in a coma. Three years later, after slow but steady recovery, he caught pneumonia and wasn't strong enough to fight it. He was 18 when he was punched and 21 when he passed.  My bro was a super popular kid and THOUSANDS of people were praying for his recovery. He still died.

Now, when I was home over the holidays my Dad misplaced his keys. Mom told him to say a prayer to some saint, he found 'em ten minutes later and Mom was like "See, so-and-so always helps!" I didn't mean to, but I must've been glaring at them something fierce, 'cause Dad looked at me and asked what was wrong. I blurted out "What, were we just praying to the wrong fucking saint to save David, then?"

I suppose I'm more of a deist than an agnostic, it could just be my upbringing but I can't let go of the concept of a higher power. But, as we say here at Turdville, WTFDIK...

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:27

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I don't ascribe to any

I don't ascribe to any recognized religion.  IMO they were all cooked up by Men with agendas

I agree with this part.

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TPaine
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I should clarify... Organized

I should clarify... Organized religions *as we know them today* are the product of Men with agendas... Take Christianity, we don't really know what happened between 1 B.C. and 33 A.D. All we know is what Emperor Constantine wanted us to know.

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Could not just read your new site and not enter in a bit

@TPaine:  I have a  background like yours.  I was raised Catholic, an alter boy in the old Latin Mass, married in the so called church and even went to Catholic schools for awhile.  I was as lost as anyone else, the system make me believe there was a God, but I sure could not find Him in that system.  It may surprise you to know that I agree with you on a few points but not the outcome.  The denominational systems were never of God but manmade.  Their bible colleges all teach different views on the same scriptures and are totally divided.  The clergy-layman division is in violation of the scripture but was correct in the old testament.  The seeking of power and money is not the gospel of the scriptures but of men. The so-called prosperity gospel has caused much harm to the Church.  The building of buildings and the priesthood was jumped upon by Constantine in the early 300's and the ways of his mother are a history of greed.

With that all being said, I came to a place where everything change for me and my household and we have never been the same.  I am not preaching at you, it is just that after 25 years of sitting in a dead pew, I found the real Light in a different time and place.  The scripture teaches that we are not to judge those outside the Church and that is left to God Himself.  Dealing with those within the Church is a different matter.   Thanks:  Jim

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Been getting into quite a few

Been getting into quite a few God convo's with friends lately. Seems many in the enlightening process are starting to feel the great shift.

What I believe is happening is a great spiritual and personal test among Men. The Universe has a way of "speaking" to each one of us in our own ways and I feel that unless we answer the call, we'll be left behind.

I dismantled and de-programmed myself from God dogma in my late 20's. It was quite painful and confusing and one can be left very uncomfortable and vulnerable, which I say are rare blessings. Because, hey, who you do you know that voluntarily puts themselves in such situations? No one? Now you know why people are so lost, blind and incompetent on so many levels. 

Notice I didn't say "religion" because I'm a very religious person, I just happen to feel this association between religion and God is silly. I'm very religious about my belief that God is nothing. I'm very religious about the fact that nothing exists outside the projection of myself onto reality. From nothing comes everything. There can be no separation, only the illusion of such. 

Anyway, one of the most powerful tools I've used along the way are the teachings of Alan Watts. Here's an excerpt from one of his many lectures for your perusal: 

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stephanie
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A few thoughts

TPaine wrote:

I was raised Christian. Mom is Catholic and Dad is Episcopalian, participated in both growing up, went to Sunday School and R.O.C.K. Didn't question too much and considered myself a "believer". Then my younger brother died. He was hit at a high school party, which popped an aneurysm and put him in a coma. Three years later, after slow but steady recovery, he caught pneumonia and wasn't strong enough to fight it. He was 18 when he was punched and 21 when he passed.  My bro was a super popular kid and THOUSANDS of people were praying for his recovery. He still died.

Now, when I was home over the holidays my Dad misplaced his keys. Mom told him to say a prayer to some saint, he found 'em ten minutes later and Mom was like "See, so-and-so always helps!" I didn't mean to, but I must've been glaring at them something fierce, 'cause Dad looked at me and asked what was wrong. I blurted out "What, were we just praying to the wrong fucking saint to save David, then?"

I am sorry about your brother. I hope you don't mind me commenting as follows:

Religious people have a very paradoxical view of death. If you believe in a loving God and heaven, then your brother would be actually fine and happy in the afterlife. If you are an atheist, then you believe that when we die, there is nothing. Which means no pain or even memory of existence. In which case, the individual certainly doesn't have a problem with death because the individual isn't there to question it.

Why do we then mourn people who die? Why do we fight death so fiercely? Why do we become angry at God for death if we are supposed to believe in everlasting life after death?

Why aren't funerals celebrations? As in: Hey, congrats, your work here is done, and now you are moving on to the next level of existence!

Ultimately, I believe religion is a very limited way to express the reality of God, but it has many useful morals, precepts and practices to help people cope with the harshness of life. Where I think people get turned off is when they take religion too literally or seriously. Or they think that religion itself must be perfect to be useful. Well, I'm not Catholic and I don't like certain things about the religion, but I happen to think a lot of Catholic mysticism is pretty neat. I find Evanglical theology to be too simplistic for my tastes, but I love their emotional connection to Jesus. It's beautiful.

Of course, religion itself is to blame for expressing very simplistic, mind-numbing dogma to the outer world while not articulating better the beauty and nuance.

I think a lot of hatred of religion is simply a hatred of the simplistic outward trappings of religion. I'm guessing a lot of atheists don't actually take the time to really study religious philosophy and theology in depth. They look at the external or "exoteric" nature of the religion, find it lacking, and dismiss it entirely. But when you start digging deeper, there is a richness there that can be quite astonishing and fascinating.

I don't think religion is for everyone. One half of my family is atheist, they are happy and don't need anything more than that.

So I'm not trying to convert anyone, and I hope it didn't come off like that. Just some thoughts.

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stephanie wrote:Why do we

stephanie wrote:
Why do we then mourn people who die? Why do we fight death so fiercely? Why do we become angry at God for death if we are supposed to believe in everlasting life after death?

Because there's a very profitable business model behind these ideas. 

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Dr Durden wrote: stephanie

Dr Durden wrote:

stephanie wrote:
Why do we then mourn people who die? Why do we fight death so fiercely? Why do we become angry at God for death if we are supposed to believe in everlasting life after death?

Because there's a very profitable business model behind these ideas. 

Exactly!  Why does any funeral cost 10k at the bottom rung? You are shoving someone in the ground ( Which I detest ) then there are so many other bells and whistles that are must haves in order for it to be "proper"......Add this into the money train which is religion and you have a never ending cash cow, all tax free.

I have been hearing all my life..." he or she is in a better place" Really? How would they know this, which is a question I ask when I hear it anymore.......I get an offensive glare and no answer.

I have no problem with people believing in what ever they want, I just can't stand the hypocrisy that is spewed by most........."If" there is a God, I bet he don't take kindly to it either.

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SilverFocker, you're right !

God does hate the hypocrisy within the church/organized religion.  In the NT, Jesus' strongest words  were against hypocrites (within the church/Jewish temple priest/leaders), even calling them out as hypocrites  (Mark 7:6-16).   Most of Jesus' conversations/discussions were against the ruling Pharisees (think political leaders), scribes (think lawyers and educators), and the money-changers (think bankers)   ... as these would abuse and steal from the masses - sound like what still goes on today?   For example:  He told the adulteress woman, "Go and sin no more"   yet,  He said to the Pharisees and lawyers , "Woe to you ... for you are full of robbery and wickedness..."  (Luke 11:39-52)       -   Yes, there is hypocrisy within the church, but that doesn't make all believers hypocrites,   and there  are also hypocrites among the atheists as well , hmmm... (Ever hear an atheist say the words "God damn it", thus calling on a higher power, even if they don't realize it?)       As far as "being in a better place",  well...maybe, maybe not .        

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sorry for the delay in

sorry for the delay in replying, gonna try to catch up...

NW VIEW wrote:

The denominational systems were never of God but manmade.  Their bible colleges all teach different views on the same scriptures and are totally divided. 

That's one of the major issues that drove me to abandon Religion. All it seems to do is divide. Christians, Jews and Muslims all pray to the same God, Abraham's God, yet how much blood has been spilled and hate fermented all over differing interpretations?

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stephanie wrote: Why do we

stephanie wrote:

Why do we then mourn people who die? Why do we fight death so fiercely? Why do we become angry at God for death if we are supposed to believe in everlasting life after death?

Mourning for the dead has nothing to do with Religion. I'll bet cavemen cried when their loved ones died.  For me, the "anger" (not quite the right word, but it'll work) stems from the dischord between the loving, caring, benevolent God I was programmed to worship and reality. We pray for victory in wars and sport, we pray for guidance, strength, this and that, as if God might actually take time out of his schedule to deliver.  We're taught in Sunday School "knock, and it shall be opened. Ask, and it shall be given."  Current events and history tell me, unequivocably, that God does not answer prayers.  I don't have a problem with that, per say, but the fact that Religion brainwashes people into thinking that God does answer prayers just proves to me that they're mostly B.S.

Quote:
Ultimately, I believe religion is a very limited way to express the reality of God

Concerning Religion (big R), I lean more towards the "opiate of the masses" angle. 

[/quote]

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TPaine
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Dr Durden wrote: stephanie

Dr Durden wrote:

stephanie wrote:
Why do we then mourn people who die? Why do we fight death so fiercely? Why do we become angry at God for death if we are supposed to believe in everlasting life after death?

Because there's a very profitable business model behind these ideas. 

Why do (some?) dogs mourn when their owners die? Mourning a loss has nothing to do with God. Where God comes in is in helping us deal with said loss. If we believe our loved one is "in a better place" it's easier to get on with life.

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