Occupy Wall Street - Grassroots or Well-Organized Conspiracy?

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stephanie
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Occupy Wall Street - Grassroots or Well-Organized Conspiracy?

A place to discuss various OWS theories.

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:24
stephanie
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Overview - why folks are suspicious of OWS

I thought it might be worthwhile at this point to set up a topic on OWS conspiracy theories. I've read a bunch, ranging from extreme left-wing desires to "destroy" America, to Alex Jones claiming the movement has been "co-opted" by MoveOn for Obama's re-election, to Glenn Beck's claims that it is run by Marxists, to others who think it's a plot by the New World Order to start the new global government (this last one is verrrry interesting...I'll share what I've found).

First off, I'll just share that I've had an uneasy/bad feeling about OWS from the start. I will admit that I think that there's some sort of "astroturf" going on here, but I'm not sure by whom. So I've been doing some digging because I can't shake that bad gut feeling I have about all of it.

To be honest, I really get concerned when folks put up videos about OWS and get "misty-eyed." This to me is the essence of propaganda - tugging on people's heartstrings or trying to get them to feel a sense of "purpose" to some sort of greater mission.

Maybe I'm just cynical, or I've been around the block a bit. But I know I'm not the only one. A good number of people are suspicious of this movement. For a variety of reasons.

#1 is the clearly leftist orientation of much of the OWS organization. If you are a leftist, you'll love this. If you are a moderate, libertarian, or conservative, you may find this to be a little concerning. As a former "progressive" (and now libertarian-leaning independent) I know the far left movement has got some very scary elements. So count me in as wary.

Libertarians seem to want to dominate OWS but have not become the dominant force despite much "excitement" about OWS - I have heard stories about Ron Paul signs being banned at OWS.

#2 concern is how this movement seemed to pop up out of nowhere. Well, it's not as viral as you think. It's been in the works for a while. I'll share more about that in my next post.

#3 concern is whether the "mob" will remain peaceful, or if it will lead to riots and potentially martial law.

There are other concerns...this is just a quick overview. 

stephanie
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Possible OWS/NWO connection & UN involvement

OK, this is where I veer into "tin foil" hat territory, but I think this is important.

Why did OWS suddenly "explode" worldwide on October 15? Did you think OWS went viral? Well, no, actually, it did not. A "Day of Rage" has been planned by leftist organizations for October 15 for a while now. You can find a number of websites on it, including:

http://usdayofrage.org

Somehow, I came across a somewhat well-produced video designed to inspire people to get ready for October 15.

This let me to the following website:

http://15october.net

With the headline "United for #globalchange" (shades of Obama campaign).

This website seemed odd to me. Who was behind it? It was faceless.

I did a Whois lookup on it:

Registrant:
Paulina Arcos

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: 15OCTOBER.NET

Domain servers in listed order:
VENS.TOMALAPLAZA.NET

DNS.CIUDADRED.NET

Who the heck is "Paulina Arcos"? Well, I used Google and came across this thread in Godlikeproductions:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1673232/pg1

Paulina Arcos is involved in the United Nations and married to the Ecuadorian Foreign Minister. (See page 3 of the thread):

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1673232/pg3

Now, does this prove that this is an NWO setup? No. But I encourage you read the thread and think about why someone who is married to a prominent politician and involved in the UN would be setting up an anonymous site to support a "popular" uprising.

stephanie
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From Oct 15: General Assemblies designed to replace governments

Here's another very important piece of this puzzle. You have probably seen video from OWS events where people are participating in "direct democracy" by voting in "general assemblies." They wave their fingers to vote (this has been made fun of by some as "voting by jazz hands").

This is not just some sort of way to organize the Occupy events. It is designed as a replacement for our current government structures. In effect, it is being set up as a way to produce a soft revolution of sorts by bypassing our elected officials and having people vote "directly."

From http://15october.net/how-we-see-it/whats-the-plan/

Therefore, the idea was to change the point of view. We should go to the roots of the problems, the roots that are causing all these problems; roots that are common worldwide. And that fundamental issue that lie behind all the other problems is that we, the people of the world, are not deciding what the world should be. If we could, most of these problems would just disappear. That’s the main idea that is behind all mobilizations in Egypt, Tunisia, Spain, Greece, Iceland, Israel, USA, … We want to decide what our countries should be, instead of dictators, markets, or governments that do not listen to the people. And once we get back the power we will find the specific answers to our problems, probably different from one country to another. That very basic, but powerful idea led us to two main contents for 15O:
- For giving the power to the people. For a direct democracy in a local and global level.
- Against who are deciding for us. And we specify:
* Financial power. The banks, global financial institutions (IMF, World Bank, WTO, OECD), rating agencies, transnationals, tax havens…
* Political power. A ruling class isolated from people
* Military power. Armies, NATO
* Media power. Big mass media, Internet censorship authorities
The whole world can feel this two ideas like their own content, and at the same time be a global answer to the global problems.
In a next level each country could develop this contents according to each local view. So we mobilize and give a global answer, but also a local answer.

On the surface, this may seem like it's a good idea - hey, more power to the people - but here's what it means in essence:

They want to replace our government with this new form of government.

What do you think will happen to the United States Constitution? Are you OK with destroying the United States Constitution in favor of "democracy by jazz hands"?

Think long and hard about the implications...

stephanie
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More on "general assemblies"

I have been doing some reading of various Occupy-related websites, and from what I can gather the concept of these "general assemblies" is not just for replacing current governments, but they also want to use it as a way to run companies. In other words, rather than having a CEO and a Board of Directors, the "general assemblies" of "the people" - aka, the workers - would gather and vote on things in a group. It is a plan to remove hierarchies altogether. (Now, whether that's the true goal, or if it's just a stepping stone to an NWO scenario, that's up to you and your tin foil hat.)

You can go poke around the Internet yourself and see what you find. I don't think I'm overblowing this. In some respects, I can see that it's an idea that comes from a lot of idealism. And hey, if someone wants to start a company like that, that's fine by me. But they seem to want to replace the power structure of all hierarchical organizations using this "direct democracy" model.

Haole
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Who cares?

Have fun weaving your own web of speculation about what's wrong with this movement.  From someone who's always preaching positivity here no less...  Tin foil hat..?  Why the labels and categorizations?   You don't think that's divisive?   Hypocrisy at it's finest.  What use is this thread but to subvert and belittle the movement at large by virtue of it's very existence and evident implication of conspiracy by those at large on the street, by design or not?

Why can the other thread not harbor any "theories" or speculative biases in context?

Irrelevant IMO as the entire site is quickly becoming frankly.

stephanie
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OWS is fair game for criticism and *should* be scrutinized

Haole,

First, perhaps it is hard to grasp via the electronic communication, but for me to call my own postings a bit of "tin foil hat" is meant to be wry. Wry, as in, subtly poking some fun in a non-mean-spirited way. It in effect, is meant to lesson the stigma of the "label."

More importantly: There seems to be some folks who feel that any criticism of the movement should be silenced because it might "subvert" and "belittle" it. Would you rather that we not criticize or question it at all?

I believe OWS is fair game for criticism. You are welcome to support it, that's fine. But you do not have the right to tell others that they must support it or keep their criticisms or legitimate questions to themselves.

Personally, I feel it is very very important that we all look very critically at who is behind OWS/Oct 15, what their agenda is, and what the end result might be if they achieve their goals. Since the movement has been (perhaps by design) a bit wishy-washy in clearly stating its goals, it seems like a lot of people are simply projecting their own desires onto it.

I see some folks projecting a libertarian bent to a movement that doesn't seem libertarian at its core, for one thing.

Projection can be dangerous. I think it's vitally important that we look at what is behind OWS and what the end goals are. 

Now, if you can read the same websites I've read, and you are perfectly OK with "general assemblies" replacing our current hierarchical structures...and hopefully you've thought it through, really thought it through, then more power to you.

I've done my homework on OWS, and I started doing this early on to make a conscious decision as to whether to support it or not. I was not letting myself get run by emotion. Yes, I am angry at the "banksters" and the corruption. But I don't think OWS is the answer at this time, based on my research and the lack of a clearly stated strategy.

If I am presented with rational, reasoned evidence that the structure and focus of OWS will lead to an end result that I would agree with, I may change my mind. But I have not seen that. Mostly, I've seen a lot of riled up people who are making decisions based on raw emotion instead of basing their support on facts, reason and logic. 

I understand the attraction to getting involved with a "grand movement" - it's heady and exciting - it's precisely for that reason I feel we need to step back, take a deep breath, and really look at it critically. These movements prey upon people's emotions - it's designed to do that. The essence of the mob is emotion, not reason.

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PS

Haole wrote:

Why can the other thread not harbor any "theories" or speculative biases in context?

You haven't considered that perhaps I didn't want that other thread totally hijacked by conspiracy theories discussions - that out of some respect for those who support OWS, I felt it would be the nicer thing to do to create a separate topic for this. 

And BTW, you are welcome to share any "opposing" conspiracies if you want, e.g., if you think there is a conspiracy to stop OWS, feel free to share it here. That's what this thread is for.

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Thanks for the thread

I'd like to say thanks Stephanie for making this thread.  I have gone back and forth on the whole OWS thing.  At first I thought it was just something quick that happened for a few days on the news and then realized it was also going on for weeks and now is in my local downtown, and in neighboring towns.  I thought WTF is this?  I saw a video of a kid pretty much speaking the truth about the Federal Reserve and how it has usurped our wealth and I thought "wow, that college-age kid is really educated.  This must be a libertarian-type uprising".  But then I see other people just stating that they just want the rich to pay their fair share of taxes, that they want corporations dismantled, given to the people, etc.  Okay, well that's clearly NOT libertarian so I don't know what it is.  It's been expressed that the message is muddy, which it is to me too.  

I too thought it was just a little strange how quickly this caught on.  I mean, I know how hard it is to organize a big event and this thing just came out of nowhere.  Obviously it was planned.  Obviously someone has an agenda.  I just don't know if it's right or wrong.  Hearing that "Ron Paul signs are banned" makes me wonder if they are just trying to keep it from being political.  Because in my opinion, if you really do want freedom from the Fed and the oppressive bankers, there is no other choice BUT Ron Paul.  If they were all talking about Ron Paul at all of these protests around the world, it would be a good thing.  Regardless of if he wins or not, Ron Paul's message is practically the only thing left of the pre-Fed America.  It has to be spread. 

I will say this:

1.  It's probably a good thing that regular people are getting off their butts and deciding to do something.  
2.  I do feel nervous that this will be used to in some way justify something worse, such as Obama saying "I've heard your cries OWS!  I'll sign an executive order to raise taxes!  or some such nonsense.  
3.  I want to feel optimistic that people fight for what is right and that they really do understand who the real enemies are and that  in order to get our liberties back, we need to restore the republic, stop these needless wars, and work on ourselves, not the rest of the world.  Unfortunately, my experience has been that of the very, very passionate people I have spoken to, very few really understand what is going on.  The TEA party is an exception, but even that has been manipulated and turned into something it's not so it's hard to tell.  
4.  My other fear is what Stephanie touched on above.  That all of these protest will break out in major cities all over the country and that will give Obama (or someone with the authority) the reason to implement martial law and/or ban protests or public assembly.  Of course it will be only temporary, as it clearly violates the Constitution, but "necessary" to handle this particular issue.  You know, kind of how airport security was just "beefed up a bit" after 9/11?  Yeah, right.  TSA is here to stay.  

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit here but I think that the OWS movement should be carefully scrutinized BECAUSE it's obviously been planned out.  This was not "borne from the hearts of Americans around the country simultaneously".  So, what is it exactly?  I truly do hope that is does serve a positive purpose.  I don't care what their backgrounds are, American citizens can assemble.  I just hope they aren't manipulated into bringing forth something that further destroys us.  It's only happened all throughout time...

There, now do I fit in the "tin foil hat" category??  wink
 

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The Oct 15 site does not

The Oct 15 site does not appear to be an American movement of any kind, although they seem to claim credit , or are attempting to speak for it or  associate themselves with it. .They are speaking in global terms and not specific American issues .  They were not urging on the first American protests in Sept. and are late comers by Oct 15 .Which to me indicates they were not involved in the beginnings of the wall st occupation .

If Americans were to tie themselves with this group, and in another nation the group committed an act of violence .Americans would be viewed as the same type of group and a ""justified"" crackdown could commence.

I would be skeptical of any group proclaiming to speak for  OWS that doesn't address the criminal banks and their puppet whores in Washington that are not American in origin 

OWS has distinctive American issues, not global.

The left and right both have an interest in not being ripped off of their hard earned money.

The enemies of this movement are searching for a wedge to divide the people into smaller groups . So far they haven't been too successful , but given a little more time I'm sure they will find something to drive  a wedge.

Ive read where the NAZI's (about ten left I think)and the Communists , and the Socialists and president Obama  and Ron paul supporters all support OWS. They pretty much included everybody's enemy LOL.

I pretty sure  quadaffy and the Mexican drug cartels and al Qaeda  support     it too  

They're grasping at straws, or throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks

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OWS must be controlled opposition

After all the coverage on MSM today and this weekend, it has to be. Imagine if Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth were ever given this much attention. Haha, oh boy...

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Oct 15 connections

dmanson, thanks for your comment. Mostly, I just hope people think very carefully about what they are signing up for.

In regards to the comment about the October 15 movement - many of these activists organizations overlap in various goals, methods, people and actions. 

I found the October15.net through Occupy sites. If anything, "Occupy Wall Street" is part of a global movement...even though the media has made it look like all the worldwide protests were somehow "inspired by" OWS. If you read foreign news, you'll often get more information, for example, I read in the BBC website today that the Spain "Occupy" protest (on Oct 15) had actually been part of a movement going since May, and I believe it had its own name...something like "Indignant."

The Occupy Wall Street site itself clearly aligns itself with the global October 15 "day of action" here:
http://occupywallst.org/article/october-15th-global-day-action/

It also runs things using general assemblies and the "direct democracy" process advocated on the October15.net website.

This doesn't necessarily mean the motives are sinister. It could simply be a loosely connected network of idealistic far left activists who believe that this "assembly" style organization is the path to empowering "the people." I disagree, but at least be aware that this might be on their agenda.

The original video that led me to October15.net - which I think I found through the US Day of Rage website - kinda slick, huh?:

The description says, in part: 

From America to Asia, from Africa to Europe, people are rising up to claim their rights and demand a true democracy. Now it is time for all of us to join in a global non violent protest.

The ruling powers work for the benefit of just a few, ignoring the will of the vast majority and the human and environmental price we all have to pay. This intolerable situation must end.

Now, in reference to the comment above about the media, I have to wonder why the media isn't doing their homework and connecting the dots on all these organizations. All they have been reporting is "Occupy Wall Street is spreading." OWS is "spreading" because a lot of work is being done behind the scenes to spread it. The media is more than happy to connect Koch brothers money to the Tea Party, I'd like to see them do more homework on the people and money behind OWS.

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"I've done my homework on

"I've done my homework on OWS"

By this u mean u went to downtown and asked people what they are talking about?

brad_pitts_bett...
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re: stephanie

"More importantly: There seems to be some folks who feel that any criticism of the movement should be silenced because it might "subvert" and "belittle" it. Would you rather that we not criticize or question it at all?"

exactly.

that's the way it is with the extreme left, and it was certain to happen.  

when you see this along with the absolute mind-numbed herd chant-repeating of whatever idiot dialogue is going on at the time - run the other way.   

at this point it is no longer about citizens addressing and showing displeasure with the practices of the banks or the fed and pushing for change within the capitalist system.    with those now steering this movement, it's about overthrowing capitalism.  

somehow i think i've seen some black and white clips much like what's going on now on certain history channel documentaries.

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Sentiment on TF towards #occupywallstreet

I find it interesting that sentiment on TF is dismissive of the #occupywallstreet movement where zerohedge and other sites have more comments on this issue. I was amazed that commentators on slashdot were nearly positive on how everything is going to shit and this movement is a reaction to it.

I also find it funny when one of the main point of this website is "The end of the Great Keynesian Experiment is upon us" and we are seeing this being materlised in front of our eyes in terms of mass arrests/protests and people are dismissing it as conspiracy theory.

Protest doesn't matter if its coming from left or right just that its starting to happend which is one of the first stages of the downfall.  Also the reactions to the protest really show how things are screwed up especially from TPTB. For me the biggest gain from the movement is that people are starting to believe that there TPTB is real and they control both parties and that the oligarchy is not benovalent.

The majority of protester don't understand what is happening around them only that something in their gut telling them that something is wrong with society. A significant number is also their for the experience but its up to us to to shine light to were things are wrong and a path to a sustainable future.

I will have my hedge in silver but for me, I really see this movement as the last hope we have of not having to use that hedge.

.

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Overthrowing capitalism?

brad_pitts_betterlooking_brother wrote:

at this point it is no longer about citizens addressing and showing displeasure with the practices of the banks or the fed and pushing for change within the capitalist system.    with those now steering this movement, it's about overthrowing capitalism.  

You know, this sounds far-fetched even to me, but something hit me after I read your comment and marinated on it for a little while.

Why did Occupy Wall Street organize itself in such a way as to be so spread out? When I used to be an idealistic "activist," back in the day, we marched on Washington. That's where you did it. You got big huge group and all went to Washington.

I have never, in my life, heard of or seen a "protest" that involved staging tent cities in cities across the United States. Not just big cities. Small cities, that you might otherwise not think are important.

It's called "Occupy" for a reason, perhaps? What does "occupying" mean anyway? Could it be this definition?

to take possession and control of (a place), as by military invasion.

Let's say - sorry, this sounds wild even to me - they are setting up this alternative "democracy" with these assemblies all over the United States. If they got enough people involved, what's to stop them from finally announcing that their "grassroots democracy" supersedes our Constitutional form of government?

I know some folks may think this criticism is just "subverting" a good movement against the "Evil Empire," but really, we should think carefully about all this. And talking to the protesters at the events is not enough - I'll bet most of those folks have no clue what the people organizing this are truly after! Why would they have a clue? If there is a sinister end goal in all this, of course the organizers aren't going to state it outright! Duh! 

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I believe the concern is

I believe the concern is legitimate. Everyone should question it. It would be foolish not to.

or you could end up working against your own interests.

However , a socialist or communist plot it is not. That is a red herring . Communism is practically dead, and no one here would support it except a few hippies. Socialism , Well shit , we are almost socialists the way it stands now. Hardly a reason to propose a socialist plot. If the banking cartel were attempting to discredit the movement what would be their first target of propaganda?Obviously, Communism, mine too. Its nothing to set up some web sites to back up the notion, hire some pros ,some writers, and wallah!  Well since wall st is the major supporter of communist labor they began  to call them anti capitalists instead  , which   exempts them, and  doesn't identify the protestors except in terms of enemy of free markets  . which, once looked at, is ridiculous on its face.

The core issue is finance and  corruption , neither socialism nor communism can promise freedom from it.I don't see either being supported by the general population because they offer nothing new.

My main concern is  the  merging of global banks . Supposing we do away with the fed , does that invite us into a global banking cartel? Do we end up like Ireland or Greece?debt slaves, owing their ass to the IMF? Does it play into the banks hands? I dunno .

or do we do nothing and stand by while the fed and wall st  continue to rape this country ?

I know the central bank was founded here in 1913, and was not powerful enough prior to WW2 to attempt a global coop . There was the rise of communism and Hitler who also opposed the central bank and had absolute contempt  for the European banking cartels.  

After WW2 Communism was strong and spreading . It was a direct threat to the bankers, and it kept them in check . It was not until 1991 and the fall of communism that opened the door for them to continue with their aspirations of a global banking system. I would assume that restructuring would be needed and a collapse of the old system to make way for the  the new. But the US was still  wealthy, so government had to squander steal, print ,borrow, for almost 20 years to bankrupt us.  That is why I do believe  a global banking collapse is imminent. It could not be just one country or one continent, it had to be global in scale. international ties must be forged before hand . interdependency  was a must .

So there is my hypothesis in  a nutshell. So why do I back the movement? One, Im tired of being ass raped by wall st and Washington. And two,I believe that we still might be able to pull our country back together. and three , I could also be wrong.  

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Socialism and TPTB

Hold over wrote:

However , a socialist or communist plot it is not. That is a red herring . Communism is practically dead, and no one here would support it except a few hippies. Socialism , Well shit , we are almost socialists the way it stands now. Hardly a reason to propose a socialist plot. If the banking cartel were attempting to discredit the movement what would be their first target of propaganda?Obviously, Communism, mine too. Its nothing to set up some web sites to back up the notion, hire some pros ,some writers, and wallah!  

You make some very good points...though I'd disagree that Communism is dead - believe it or not, I have a friend who is a Communist! And Socialism is surely alive and well - look at Europe - and you're right, we see it here too. 

What I figure - and what people who dismiss the concerns over the "Marxists" perhaps don't see - is that if I were a powerful banking cartel, and I wanted to wrest even more power from the people, wouldn't I perhaps use some of the energy of certain socialist groups to my advantage? In essence, some of the organizers themselves may be sincere leftists...but the reason the protests are "allowed" and even "encouraged" (by the media, for example) is because it serves the purposes of the cartel.

If you really think the banking cartel is that powerful, do you honestly think that a bunch of kids squatting in a park is a real threat to them? 

Thus the speculation in that godlikeproductions thread that I shared above...that this worldwide group is being used to institute worldwide "socialism" which is really a front for entrenching the global banking cartel. OK, now I'm in Alex Jones territory, but actually, I've been surprised that Alex himself seems a little naive on this subject, as he's focusing most of his energy on the "co-opting" of the movement by MoveOn.

Just some things to think about. 

I'd be more than happy if an overwhelming number of libertarians/Ron Paul Republicans/Alex Jones "Freedom Fighters" and whatnot took over these protests from the socialist/far-left element and made it into something different. So maybe it's not bad that some folks are getting involved...maybe they can direct the energy into better things.

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Another angle on OWS from Ulsterman's Wall Street Insider

Here's another perspective...from Ulsterman (for background and caveats on him and the Wall Street Insider, see: http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/comment/73168#comment-73168)

http://theulstermanreport.com/2011/10/17/wall-street-insider-the-obama-white-house-wants-us-gone-all-of-us/

WSI: ...Certainly very inconsiderate to the concerns of these events unfolding into something terribly violent and increasingly dangerous to a lot of people working and living in this city.  And it could very well spread across the country.  It’s already started in other parts of the world of course – the violence.  The instability to the system.  The Obama White House wants us gone.  All of us.  Anyone of us not fully supportive of his policies.
 
Ulsterman:  What do you mean “gone”?
 
WSI:  Just what I stated.  Gone.  Out of the way.  Our ability to make a living eliminated.  The system as we know it…the foundational freedoms of the free market…they consider it a burden.  A problem.  Something that needs to be redefined where government controls every critical component of the system.  In essence, they want the end of capitalism.  I know that has been said before, and I was among those who would roll their eyes at such an accusation against President Obama.  Call me a believer now.  What is being told to me…to others whose livelihood had been working within the current system – the situation is growing very dire.  Very dangerous.  I am not saying I fear for my life necessarily…it’s not that.  It’s that I fear for this country’s way of life.  I have never felt it to have been in so much danger as I do so right now.  And it’s moving quickly – very quickly in a direction I think very few wish to comprehend.
 
​Note: Wall Street Insider blames corrupt, power hungry unions for a lot of things, and I've always been a bit skeptical of making the unions the boogeyman. I figure, most people in unions are good, and some of what unions do is good, but some of it is corrupt and maybe some are a little out of control, just like a lot of other things. But if you think of it as unions being used for a purpose (like I said in my last post)...well...I can see how unions might become very dangerous.
 
sp001
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@steph there is a core group

@steph

there is a core group at ows which are all students and stay overnight.

however, on a daily basis there is a much larger number of people showing up in support. i don't mean poor people either. i mean 1% people who have money and run businesses. i say these things because i know alot of people who have gone down there in support. those of us who have 60-80+ hr a week jobs do not have the time to go spend the night and could probably articulate it better than the kids down there. however, the IDEA that wall street is not functioning correctly needs to be out there. this will not be done with words and logic as these methods have always been elusive to the masses. it has to be spread via drum circle. once people start to hear, things may change. 

imo, u r pointing at rotten trees and missing the forest.

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stephanie wrote: Hold over

stephanie wrote:

Hold over wrote:

However , a socialist or communist plot it is not. That is a red herring . Communism is practically dead, and no one here would support it except a few hippies. Socialism , Well shit , we are almost socialists the way it stands now. Hardly a reason to propose a socialist plot. If the banking cartel were attempting to discredit the movement what would be their first target of propaganda?Obviously, Communism, mine too. Its nothing to set up some web sites to back up the notion, hire some pros ,some writers, and wallah!  

You make some very good points...though I'd disagree that Communism is dead - believe it or not, I have a friend who is a Communist! And Socialism is surely alive and well - look at Europe - and you're right, we see it here too. 

Anyone who has ever looked at Cuba, N Korea, China, and the former Soviet Union understands that these systems have failed on a massive level. Yes,your going to have a few  idealistic supporters but  you couldn't fill a Denny's restaurant with all of them combined . If it were not for the US,supporting  China with American jobs , they might have threw in the towel also.

What I figure - and what people who dismiss the concerns over the "Marxists" perhaps don't see - is that if I were a powerful banking cartel, and I wanted to wrest even more power from the people, wouldn't I perhaps use some of the energy of certain socialist groups to my advantage?

What energy?

In essence, some of the organizers themselves may be sincere leftists...but the reason the protests are "allowed" and even "encouraged" (by the media, for example) is because it serves the purposes of the cartel.

I see the media as misrepresenting the whole thing , if not ignoring them . FOX stopped calling them communists and are  now calling them anti capitalists , if thats not propaganda, I dont know what is.

If you really think the banking cartel is that powerful, do you honestly think that a bunch of kids squatting in a park is a real threat to them? 

The truth is always a threat to lies.

Thus the speculation in that godlikeproductions thread that I shared above...that this worldwide group is being used to institute worldwide "socialism" which is really a front for entrenching the global banking cartel. OK, now I'm in Alex Jones territory, but actually, I've been surprised that Alex himself seems a little naive on this subject, as he's focusing most of his energy on the "co-opting" of the movement by MoveOn.

Just some things to think about. 

I'd be more than happy if an overwhelming number of libertarians/Ron Paul Republicans/Alex Jones "Freedom Fighters" and whatnot took over these protests from the socialist/far-left element and made it into something different. So maybe it's not bad that some folks are getting involved...maybe they can direct the energy into better things.

There are Ron Paul supporters there , there are veterans  there, there are small business owners there, there are libertarians  there . There    are  unemployed  collage  grads there , there are lawyers there.  there are rock stars and movie stars there, there are left wing people there , and of course you have your fruit basket, bongo drum playing , pot smoking  people there. Some of their views are in obvious conflict, but they are not in conflict about the criminals on wall st and DC. That, they do agree on .  Stop looking at only a part of the picture . Thats like someone looking at a toe in Michael Angelo painting and and saying they dont feel he was very good artist . The totality of whole picture must be viewed .

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