I need a new safe... recommendations?

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pourty
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I need a new safe... recommendations?

I've considered the thought that the valuables in your safe probably shouldn't be worth more than about 10x what you paid for the safe (at least until you get into the TL-30 arena).  Well, at the point that I put all my guns in my gunsafe, I've pretty much hit that point, which doesn't even begin to include PMs.  Don't get me wrong, it's a decent gunsafe.  But it's not even TL-15.

The guns are insured, and none of them are what you'd consider to be "collectors" items or heirlooms, (my kids will likely disagree),  if someone got into the safe and stole the guns, they could be replaced by insurance and it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me.  (a hassle, to be sure, but no more than that).

The PM's however, are a different story.  I don't like the idea of storing PM's in my gunsafe, I'd like a small TL-15 or TL30 safe to store them in.  I'm looking at this one: http://www.valuesafes.com/safes/mv30-2016.html.  I know just enough to get myself in trouble.  As in: I know TL-30 is about the best around for a residential safe, but no idea what a good one would be.  It's just for PMs, so it needn't be large (I don't have THAT much!).  My budget for this needs to be under $3K.  Less is better, but I don't want to skimp, either.  Is TL-30 overkill?

Any recommendations? 

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:06
Cerote
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Floor safes have many advantages

Check out AMSEC Star round floor safes, embedded in concrete, no casual burglar will even find it, or be able to carry it off without jackhammering your basement for a couple of hours.  Used by gas stations for decades.  Cost around $500 new, but lots of peace of mind after the concrete sets.  Oh, and the dial comes off, so you can hide that in a different location.

SilverFocker
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I like my

Liberty safe, it was under 3k and bolted to the floor.......not to mention it weighs in around 880 lbs.

Insurance wanted 40 bucks per gun, per year. The safe has already paid for itself.

Most break in's are quick in and out.........only the stupid one's will hang around thinking they can get into a high quality safe. We are not dealing with ocean's 11 type's, most are crack heads looking for the next fix.

You can also have your safe Armed with a security feature that will call your cell if the door is jarred or opened.

pourty
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I like the floorsafe idea,

I like the floorsafe idea, it's less costly and well concealed.  The problem is, I have no clue how I'd install such a thing, and it would seem counterproductive to pay someone to install it, as they'd then know where it is and that I have it.

I guess I'll have to look into how to break up and repair cement...

Cerote wrote:

Check out AMSEC Star round floor safes, embedded in concrete, no casual burglar will even find it, or be able to carry it off without jackhammering your basement for a couple of hours.  Used by gas stations for decades.  Cost around $500 new, but lots of peace of mind after the concrete sets.  Oh, and the dial comes off, so you can hide that in a different location.

pourty
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I've seen liberty safe's.  My

I've seen liberty safe's.  My safe is every bit as secure as a Liberty and also bolted to a cement floor.  I'm looking for something better than that, something TL-30 or TL-15 rated, or... as noted above something that has some security beyond the device itself (such as the concealment factor of a floor safe).

Thanks, though!

SilverFocker wrote:

Liberty safe, it was under 3k and bolted to the floor.......not to mention it weighs in around 880 lbs.

Insurance wanted 40 bucks per gun, per year. The safe has already paid for itself.

Most break in's are quick in and out.........only the stupid one's will hang around thinking they can get into a high quality safe. We are not dealing with ocean's 11 type's, most are crack heads looking for the next fix.

You can also have your safe Armed with a security feature that will call your cell if the door is jarred or opened.

kingbee4
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Safe

I have been thinking about a safe also.  The problem with a safe is what to do about the gun to your head scenario like we heard about with the guy who lost his $750,000 worth of silver.  So I decided to get a cheap safe as a decoy.  I am installing a wall safe that cost me $79 on ebay - the kind you put in a wall behind a picture.  I will put in it a little silver, cash and jewelry.  A thief may not find it, but if he does he spends his time yanking it out of the wall and gets away with a thousand $s worth of stuff.  Any other funds will be buried or hidden much more difficult to find and remove.  If someone puts a gun to my head, he gets the stuff in the wall safe.  Other guns hidden nearby may be used if it looks dire.  This plan seems to me to save a bunch of money on a safe with increased security.

Dr Durden
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Doesn't the 'gun to the head'

Doesn't the 'gun to the head' scenario indicate a home security issue and not a personal belongings issue?

For me, I need something to keep my valuables in to avoid the possible damage caused by water, fire, tornado, etc. It seems something very heavy, practically bullet proof and bolted to the basement floor would be the best choice, while hiding coins in plain sight all over the place would be the worst. 

I've looked at Liberty, too and was extremely put off to learn you have to spend $900+ to get one made in the US. They're really proud to tell you they make safes here, but try to hide the fact that they do sell safes made in China.

Thanks for the tip on the AMSEC floor safe, might just be what I'm looking for.

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Quixote2
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My next safe..

My next safe, currently have a gun safe, will probably be a Brown floor safe.

http://www.brownsafe.com/categories/floor_safes/floor_safes.htm

You can rent a concrete drill to rough out a hole in the concrete.  Make the cavity significantly larger than the safe and place a lot of concrete rebar around the safe before you pour concrete around the safe.  (You do not want the bad guys to remove the safe from the floor and take elsewhere for opening.) Provide a flush finish with a second near skim coat (1/4 - 1/2 inch thick), second fabricate the floor covering that hides the safe, third stack some boxes/junk over the location.

Brown manufactures a wide variety of safes, etc.

http://www.brownsafe.com/

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Safes and PMs

Where to put your PMs is a home security and a belongings issue.  I am trying to prepare for all scenarios.   My hiding places will take in consideration flood, fire and tornado.  The others possibilities are theft and gun to the head.  That seems to pretty much cover it.

A hint on fire.  If you have ever seen burned homes, the safest place is low to the ground.  So if you store inside your home, it's best to be below or at ground level on a slab home.  Don't know of a safe place from fire in a pier and beam home except a fire rated safe.

jrobb316
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I have been considering this

I have been considering this also, and have chosen to go with the AMSEC floor safe (based on my own research).  The only drawback I can see is the waterproof issue, but I can take care of that by gasketing or caulking the plate that goes over it so the floor is flush.  Or making my own top plate, the possibilities are many.  Fireproof and almost impossible to find, with great peace of mind, I like it.

ragemachinest
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Fort Knox

I am a fan of the Fort Knox Legend (model) safes myself (http://www.ftknox.com/). Apart from the PMs I store a lot of guns in there. The level of of protection in terms of steel thickness and the locking system compared to others seemed comparable or better than others when I got it and most importantly for me was the fire protection rating which is 1680ºF for 90 minutes. 

Dr Durden
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jrobb316 wrote:The only

jrobb316 wrote:
The only drawback I can see is the waterproof issue, but I can take care of that by gasketing or caulking the plate that goes over it so the floor is flush.  Or making my own top plate, the possibilities are many.  Fireproof and almost impossible to find, with great peace of mind, I like it.

Which was my next point, actually. Luckily my basement is totally uneven and runs to the floor drain and the spot I'd bury the safe is uphill, but that doesn't make it waterproof, just less likely to be submerged. I live in Minnesota and in the summer the floor will weep a little even with the dehumidifier running all the time. So keeping moisture out of it would be my #1 priority. I suppose silica packs can help.

If I ever have a 180* career change and start building houses, I'll definitely be putting some kick ass hiding spaces that are dry and secure into my plans. Not even Sherlock Holmes would be able to find the massive PM stash in my designs. yes

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jrobb316
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I am here in WI. My basement

I am here in WI. My basement doesn't get much moisture but I have had minor floods (couple inches, nothing damaged) which has been fixed with a new sump pump and new interior drain tile. So in the event of a flood I want the top waterproof. I will build a plate with a gasket or something else I devise. If there is any interest I can make a video or document how I install it start to finish, let me know guys. Hopefully this will happen in the next month. Hayden makes a poly safe that isn't supposed to rust or get moisture so that may also be an option for you. I tend to build things heavy duty, this will be a fun project.

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For the wet weather guys

(I'm so glad I don't have to worry about moisture!)

For you fellas who have moisture to deal with when discussing floor safes, take a look at polyethylene floor safes like what Hayman has: http://www.haymansafe.com/pages/FSPoly  (jrobb also mentioned them above)

They aren't waterproof at the doors, but you won't have to worry about seepage from underground or rusting if the concrete around it seeps.  If you're keeping a handgun and some ammo in the safe, just put them in a large gallon zip lock baggie.  If its documents you're worried about, then a floor safe will probably be a lot safer than upright safe above ground.  You'll of course want to keep them in either ziplocks of some smaller waterproof container inside the safe.

When installing a floor safe, make sure you dig deeper and wider than the unit.  As mentioned above, rebar is important to keep strength if you can do it.  Playing with rebar isn't easy though. 

I highly recommend zip locks rather than trying to find a waterproof safe or something similar, because if your basement floods, you may want to be able to retrieve the important documents, guns, ammo, etc... and you can't just open a submerged safe and let the water rush in now, can ya?

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All great points,

All great points, Benny.

That's it, I quit. Wish I never took on the task of preparing accordingly cause it's a PITA!!! ;);)

The other issue is lugging a 300 lb+ safe down into the basement without destroying my floor and the wimpy stairs. I suppose I'd slide it down on a tarp with some straps? One night when I was hammered in college, I tried to carry a full keg into the basement by myself. That didn't end well. :(

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Bluebellkid
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Safes

I bought my safe from www.centurionsafes.com.  They are wholesalers and they have quite a selection.

Mr. Picklepants
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I have no real opinion on gun

I have no real opinion on gun safe's. I have one at the back of my narrow closet. It's a pain to get to for me.

My PM's however, I don't keep all of them in the safe. I have buried them under my house. Pm's are metal, I'm not worried about floods are fires. Put them in some plastic, in a box of some sort, and bury them. It's cheap. How could they possible find them? A metal detector? Do you know how many nails were dropped in the construction of your house?

Another good place to store them is under the insulation in your attic.

kingbee4
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attic

I don't think hiding anything under insulation in the attic is a great idea.  Hard to fine, yes, but what about fire.  Of course fire will not take away your PMs, they will still be in the rubble.  But what about their condition and value post fire?  I don't think a typical house fire will exceed the melting point, but it will be enough to melt and burn the containers onto them and thereby reducing their value from the damage.  So I have decided not to use that otherwise good hiding spot and keep it low as I discussed above.

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Any opinions/experiences

Any opinions/experiences on/with Mesa safes?

I'm looking at the MBF5922 http://www.mesasafe.com/gun-safes

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Captain Benny
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Nails

Its incredible how much trash and debris they throw into the yards while building homes.  My lab likes the smell of rust, so he will dig up nails all the time ... I've probably found over 200 loose nails in my backyard and a nearly full clip of unused nails for a nailgun.  Construction crews are lazy and don't like to clean up their messes.

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Yeah you might want

Yeah you might want to
http://www.thegreenhead.com/2007/12/fire-resistant-document-bags.php

I have one of these although burying might be cheapest form of a safe

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