Bad Tulving Experience

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eskimojo
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Bad Tulving Experience

I've been following this website since it's launched, and finally decided to create an account.  I was trying to purchase my 2nd monster box of silver eagles today, and decided to go with Tulving after reading some reviews.  They had some of the cheapest prices around, so it seemed like a great place to buy from. 

I spoke with Hannes, and I was told to create an account with them via email.  I went through the process, which seemed very incomplete to me (only requiring the ship to address).  After various questions, it became very clear that he was very uncommunicative.  After agreeing on a price, I asked if there would be an invoice or a receipt emailed to me.  The response was simply no.  

Perhaps not to you, but $20K+ is a lot of money to me, and the lack of information/communication involved had me uneasy about wiring money to him.  So, I stated I was going to start the wire process and wanted to just confirm who he would be receiving the wire from, and where the box would be shipped to.  This was his response:

"We ship $2 1/2 Mil A DAY. WAY to much work. Order Cancelled. Good luck."

He said it was way too much work to confirm the information (shipping address) and canceled my order right as I was calling to wire the money.  At this point I am glad I never wired the money, and I'm surprised at the way he communicates with customers. 

Personally, I don't think I can recommend Tulving if you are making a large and important purchase. 

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:13
zilverreiger
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its been reported before they

its been reported before they act like dicks, but they come through. (I have no experience with them)

pailin
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eskimojo wrote: Perhaps not

eskimojo wrote:

Perhaps not to you, but $20K+ is a lot of money to me, and the lack of information/communication involved had me uneasy about wiring money to him.  So, I stated I was going to start the wire process and wanted to just confirm who he would be receiving the wire from, and where the box would be shipped to.  This was his response:

"We ship $2 1/2 Mil A DAY. WAY to much work. Order Cancelled. Good luck."

I'm going to take the other side of this because I enjoy playing devil's advocate (though my inclination would be to feel the same way as eskimojo).

Unlike almost all other businesses, buying bulk bullion does not really require much in the way of "service". As long as the agreed upon items and quantities arrive safely in a reasonable period of time, that's all that the buyer should want or need. You want new bullion not new friends, right? This model is really just an extension of buying over the phone or online vs. going to a store. Same product at a lower price but with a wait time and less hand-holding. It's a tradeoff thing. If price is the most important thing to you, then you have your answer. It's an answer that's been putting bricks/mortar enterprises out of business as long as there's been a good USPS delivery network nationwide. So 200+ yrs.

Anyway, assuming the $2.5 mil figure isn't wildly overstated, the Tulving margins are pretty thin but volume is quite high. A nice business to have in a competitive market space. Why "invest" in customer service (payroll expense) when you're the most competitive in all other regards already and have the sales to prove it. The marginal gain in sales from offering lots smaller than 500 oz of silver or 10 oz of gold is already not worth the expense (to Tulving) to hire hands, so why would it be to offer a lot of hand-holding. The Tulving position, unstated, is you can pay more for that elsewhere if you like.

I don't have a problem with that as price/oz trumps customer service...for me.

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cris
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Here's a thought...

This has been sitting in my head ALL weekend.

Not my thought; a concept Ted Butler has put out many times before, but one that seems particularly appropriate today:

Invariably, at times when the price of silver sells off, commentary is issued that suggests that silver investors are selling to raise money to buy gold, or in order to put money into other assets. Aside from the fact that silver investors rarely sell collectively at all (except in the paper market), even if they did sell, the amount of money that could possibly be raised is so small as to have little meaning to other markets, like gold. Even if every investor holding the one billion ounces of silver bullion did sell at once, the potential $40 billion proceeds would amount to less than 1% of the gold bullion in existence. I’m also waiting for the stories that suggest that silver bullion investors are selling in order to buy recently-downgraded Treasury securities or stocks where the total value of silver is a small fraction of 1% of those markets. Even if silver investors did sell en masse, the proceeds would have little impact on other markets like gold, stocks or bonds.

But what about the reverse; what if a very small number of gold or stock or bond investors decided to buy silver for reasons of relative value or safety? One percent of gold’s $5 trillion bullion value is equal to $50 billion, more than all the silver bullion in the world. World stocks and bonds are measured in the many tens of trillions of dollars and the smallest fraction of one percent would swamp the silver market. My point is simple – there is such a small amount of silver in the world that this is a one-way street. Selling all the silver in the world wouldn’t amount to anything in terms it going into other markets; but the selling of the smallest percentage of any other market to put into silver would have a dramatic impact on the price of silver almost beyond comprehension. It is this basic dynamic that lies behind the greater relative returns favoring silver in the long run relative to gold and other asset choices

CK
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Hannes can be a total dick if

Hannes can be a total dick if he considers you annoying or demanding.  He's definitely an arrogant guy.  But he comes through for most people and gives the best prices.  I buy there.

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So It Goes
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Tulving

Tulving is the best when you know what you want.  Hannes and his crew are incredibly honest.  I once mailed a check for an order and got a phone call a couple days later about what to do with the extra $300.  Apparently, I left 3 $100 bills in the envelope that was payment for a contractor.  I never would have known.  

My phone orders from Tulving can last one minute if they are busy or 15 minutes during a slow time.   Just know what you want ahead of time and place the order.  Hannes Tulving's word is his bond - lock in, send money, then get delivery in a reasonable amount of time.

Remember - he has the bullion - the real money.  You need him more than he needs you.  Play the game and you win.

Black Isle
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i started a thread about a

i started a thread about a bad experience i had with Tulving and then realized it was my fault. I have since had 4 orders with no issue. highly recommend them ...if you want someone to patiently explain all the ins and outs go somewhere else and pay 5%..i was surprised the first time how seemingly unregulated the process is...i suppose if any of the bullion dealers were crooked the word would get out fairly quickly.....proceed with confidence!

Tulving has my business....

Titus Andronicus
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Bad experience with Tulving

I buy most of my bullion from Tulving.  I will also do so in the future.

Having said that, I did have a bad experience with them.

I placed a very large order and had it shipped to Brinks for a particular reason.

Normally, they deliver by hand to Brinks, but for some reason they shipped it UPS.  ONLY 1 OF 4 PACKAGES ARRIVED.

UPS admitted that it was their fault, but it was Tulving's responsibility to make sure I got my silver.

Hannes said he would deliver it once UPS concluded their investigation.  But I had to call many times before they actually shipped.  I was really pooping a brick because this was a very large order for me.  (Almost 25% of my total bullion holdings.)

In the end they did, but I had to bug them and received an e-mail from Hannes calling me "a real pest".  It took me about 30 days to get my silver.

I have subsequently bought from them.  They are almost always very fast and by far the best deal on the internet.

On my next order, I purchased an opened monster box of Eagles, and received a sealed box.  So I considered this making up for the bad experience I had.

I will continue to buy from them.  Really, their service and price is very good.  Just don't alter anything from the normal procedure.

rowdyboy
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NO SILVER FOR YOU!

you want confirmation? NO SILVER FOR YOU!

Prize Fighter
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Hoping someone can answer

Hoping someone can answer this as Hannes numerous rules/details are confusing. 

I emailed Hannes already to set up my account.  He emailed back and said it was good to go.  Now, can I ONLY order over the phone during business hours or can I also send an email at say 3am to lock in an order?  His website says they are open 24/7 including holidays and weekends but only orders are taken by phone from 8-4PST.  I'm confused that they say they are open 24/7 but that excludes ordering after business hours?  Que?

Not griping, just trying to clarify.  Can I lock in an order via email after normal business hours?

Thank you in advance!

Prize Fighter
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Prize Fighter wrote: Can I

Prize Fighter wrote:

Can I lock in an order via email after normal business hours?

Yes.

nevadan
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Prize Fighter:  I once

Prize Fighter:  I once ordered a deliverable bar from Tulving at 4:00 AM over the phone.  I think the  business hours limitations if for trades of one form of metal for another or to change silver into gold, etc.  Probably a bookkeeping thing.

As far as the Tulving being rude I think it is more a case of his business style.  He doesn't suffer fools gladly ( not calling any names, just sayin' ),  he is just very "to the point".  Not hard to see why if he is going to take an order at any hour of the day or night.  When my order was filled at such an early hour it was obvious that he had been asleep but the whole transaction was done in a minute or less.  I'd say that is pretty good service, especially since I just happened to catch a major low in price.

nevadan
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Prize Fighter:  I once

oops, dp

tallydynasty
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Is this the same Tulving guy

Is this the same Tulving guy that was charged with Fraud by the FTC and went Bankrupt with customers losing their metal?  

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/hannes-tulving-rare-coin-investments

Daedalus Mugged
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Speed?

Question about the speed of delivery.  I am still waiting for delivery on an order place over 2 weeks ago, almost 3.  Is that normal in y'alls experience?  My last order with Tulving was in the middle of the summer silver crunch and that took a little over a month.  Free overnight shipping is great, but it is largely irrelevant if it is weeks before it ships.  How soon after payment do you usually receive your order?

For the record I would describe Hannes as 'curt' ...his business model is to move volume at decent prices.  He is not in the hand holding business. 

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