Where have all the maidens gone? (money is male dominated - why?)

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reefman
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Where have all the maidens gone? (money is male dominated - why?)

Something that I have noticed is that there are very few women who are interested in money, economy, debt, etc. You do find some interested in politics but at the "tea-party" level. Where are is the "other half" when it comes to sites like this? (I am sure there are a few here, but it is strikingly obvious that there is a lack of feminine interest. Why is that?

What are your thoughts on the topic?

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:27

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valleygirl
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I don't know for sure,

I don't know for sure, certainly not as regards other women. For myself, I've always been an independent sort, and always handled my own finances even while married or in a long-term relationship.

I suppose wanting to understand a SENSIBLE approach to money is a combination of curiosity and necessity in my case.

Wondering what other ladies here will have to say...

reefman
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Perhaps it's because you,

Perhaps it's because you, being single (assumed from your post) are face-to-face with the blackness of standing on your OWN two feet and not relying on somebody else to do it for you? The FREE MARKET is like swimming in water that is so deep it's black when you look down and there is nobody there but YOURSELF. Scary but rewarding because you make your OWN life. I have a hunch that many women either use their husbands as their island of safety or they use the government as their safety. Just my hunch... Single women are more likely to feel the utter blackness of being completely on their own and the necessity of understanding fully their surroundings.... 

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154_silver
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I won't speak for others, but

I won't speak for others, but I've always handled my own finances, even when in relationships, and prefer a partner that encourages & practices  self-reliance.

People who subscribe to the men/women role-playing sometimes fall into the stereotyped behaviours, and of course, that would be "man=finances" - "woman = shopping" - I don't know many people who find those relationships useful, but I know they exist.

I think you'll find fewer females on these "financial" websites because they're often dominated by men, who can be less-than-respectful when posting.  Some sites are ridiculous with the posts - I must say it's more rare here, which I like - Turd (and others) occasionally gets an eye-roll from me, but he encourages such diverse participation & topics, it makes this space much more inviting to a wider crowd, which is a strength IMO. 

By the way, being single isn't always like facing the "utter blackness" of an abyss - lol - I love the freedom to do as I please, travel, change routines, etc. - being in relationship has its merits, but so does being single - just sayin'.

valleygirl
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reefman wrote: Single women

reefman wrote:

Single women are more likely to feel the utter blackness of being completely on their own and the necessity of understanding fully their surroundings.... 

I think I get where you're trying to go with this, reefman. But actually, all women (and men) find themselves single at one time or another, so that aspect isn't the deciding factor.

My take is...what you're describing is an independent, intelligent, curious, self-reliant spirit. Which, sadly, is rare in all humans nowadays.

I've seen discussions like this thread on other forums, and someone always seems to raise the point that women are genetically designed to seek security (from a man or men, or from a tribe) for themselves and their offspring. Women don't value freedom or self-sufficiency, etc. Men, on the other hand, are programmed to be the providers -- and in the modern world, that means stalking money rather than mammoths.

Maybe that's true -- to a degree. But I don't believe we're utter slaves to our biology. I don't have offspring, by choice, and I'm single now, by choice. And there's a lot of freedom I get to enjoy...along with the corresponding responsibilities. Like, as you say, having to break my own path in the world -- financial and otherwise.

valleygirl
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I like your style, 154_silver...

Quote:
I think you'll find fewer females on these "financial" websites because they're often dominated by men, who can be less-than-respectful when posting.

I see this often too, 154_silver. Happens all the time on ZeroHedge, for instance. Women are nothing there but boobs and bimbos (or worse).

I also encounter this lack of respect with men in trades and business: yard care, electrician, handyman, builder/contractor, auto sales and repair, etc. One time, for instance, I hired a crew to come to my house and run power out to a large shed I was converting to a studio space. The foreman and workmen knew I was the customer, but they kept going to my then-husband (who was utterly clueless and helpless about DIY things) to ask questions about the job. They refused to believe that I knew (or could know) what I wanted done.

Quote:
By the way, being single isn't always like facing the "utter blackness" of an abyss - lol - I love the freedom to do as I please, travel, change routines, etc. - being in relationship has its merits, but so does being single - just sayin'.

Yes, indeed. Assuming that a single woman (or man) is lonely and in despair is a foolish generalization. Of course, a man or woman who's just suffered the death of a mate faces deep sorrow as well as potential financial havoc. But that's just another good reason to keep at least some finances separate, and to make sure both partners are savvy about money matters.

stephanie
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Women & financial sites

154_silver wrote:

I think you'll find fewer females on these "financial" websites because they're often dominated by men, who can be less-than-respectful when posting.  Some sites are ridiculous with the posts - I must say it's more rare here, which I like - Turd (and others) occasionally gets an eye-roll from me, but he encourages such diverse participation & topics, it makes this space much more inviting to a wider crowd, which is a strength IMO. 

I read Zero Hedge regularly but do not post there - haven't even bothered to sign up for an account. The comment section there is a seething mass of aggressive, youthful testosterone mixed in with the occasional pithy observation. Entertaining, yes, but inviting to my feminine sensibilities? No. :-)

154_silver
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financial sites & gender ratios

heheh, yeah, ZH is pretty high on the adolescent-troll-style-meter.  shame, because it was brilliant circa 2009/10, lots of very smart posts hide in the "archives" - but as with many things online, once the trolling gets a foothold, it all mirrors a 15yr old boy's mindset, juggling boobies for avatars, and lots of porn-related typing that just doesn't cut  it when you're looking for information.  I miss a lot of the veterans, but I still go there for the headlines (tho' even those are getting more sensationalised, sadly).

I've worked around, and with, males all my life - self-employed artist management - so I'm aware, and mostly tolerant, of a lot of things (language,etc.).  But it's a real "tell" if a man doesn't have the self-awareness to act respectfully around others - male or female, adult or child.  Never ceases to amaze me when guys with adolescent children, particularly daughters, talk so disparagingly about women/sex.   Quite the disconnect really - all to score points with their pals?  sigh.

Like valleygirl, I've had my fair share of having to deal with men professionally in a male dominated field - and have lots of stories similar to the one you shared - but I've found that direct eye contact helps when negotiating.  I used to get a lot of "half-hugs" after meetings, but have managed to fend them off by offering a firm handshake first - ha!  In "after hours" conversations, I've found many men aren't really sure how to deal with a female in business - and are quite relieved when they learn a handshake will suffice, and no flirting is necessary (nor wanted, most of the time).  Business is business, play is play.

(we appear to have lost the OP - reefman?  are we answering your questions? *grin*)

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Yes I am here. Just keeping

Yes I am here. Just keeping my respectful pose. :) LOL! I am very interested. But are there only threee of you on this forum (out of how many thousands)? See what I mean? Most women I talk to would rather defer to "the investment professionals" to secure their wealth, and also rely on typical myths (real estate is a good investment, be sure to have a 401(k) and 503b for your kids etc.). 

It seems to me that women in general (speaking generally) are more compliant and less questioning, especially when it comes from "good" and "reputable" sources like their mothers, their friends and the TV (Oprah, The View, and "intellectual" radio like NPR). 

There is less a spirit of "bearing one's breasts in defiance" (think of that French Revolution photo), and more of a spirit of "I just want somebody to tell me that 'it's going to be alright'". That last phrase irks me because "no, it's not going to just be 'alright'". 

But yeah, I hear you about ZH. It makes it hard for me to send articles to my parents or coworkers etc... And from a man's perspective it's hard not to be distracted by BOUNCING BOOBIES!

Ladies, if you want to know how hard it is try this. I want you to look at the following string of letters without actually reading it. See if you can do it:

"HELLO WORLD!"

There, could you just look at the letters and not READ the words, or did you actually read them? If you read them then you understand how hard it is for a man with temptation. :) 

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ginger
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Having come from

Having come from extraordinarily humble beginnings, I seem to be the one in my family who 'takes the bull by the horns' so far as facing up to financial and preparedness issues. Not that my husband doesn't get it.... he does. His easygoing personality though affords him the luxury of thinking it might not be as bad as we all say. I think deep down he realizes it is ...but I'm the one who feels the heavy burden of trying to outrun reality and get us in a good place before the storm is howling in earnest outside the door.

This is a good topic. It's really kind of strange for me though to think that more men are with the program than women on these issues. Certainly not from my personal experience. But I do see that there are far more men on TFs blog than there are women. Interesting.

maravich44
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@Ginger/outrun reality-storm howling.

You are well along. Smile.

reefman
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You know what else is just as

You know what else is just as sexually segregated? Musicians and engineers. I was both. Very much absent the more gentle sex. 

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"You are well along. Smile."

"You are well along. Smile." You know.. some people just have a knack of saying the perfect uplifting thing with so few words. ...Thank you ;)

reefman, the REAL question here is ...why are you drawn to careers that seem to exclude women?? *raised eyebrow* ......  :D  ..j/k .........but come to think of it, you're right about those fields. .....Also, I think many more women are involved in the family finances than it might seem. Many of them that are though don't seek out message boards and different mediums to connect with others over matters of finance ...not as much as say women who are interested in cooking or more 'female' stereotyped interests. ...If you look on a cooking website you find many many more posts and commentors who are female. But finance and money?....you are certainly right.. they either aren't handling/involved in the family budget or those that are don't see the need to interact with others of like minded interests ...or they don't see the need for a 'support' group ..which is essentially what we all are on TFs blog.

It does seem that a fair number of the women who comment here are single?..

154_silver
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there we go - the thread is

there we go - the thread is getting some attention!

didn't mean to *poke* you reefman, but it's good to open the dialog again. . . you mention being a musician & engineer, the "artists" I managed were musicians, and yes, it's top-heavy with males, though there are more females in "higher positions" now (as opposed to "secretary/personal assistant" when I was more active).  some of this is down to genre demographics - the guitar oriented music usually gets sold to males, pop to females - again in general.  I've always avoided anything mainstream, so we started our own labels, set up our own tours, etc. - until the majors came sniffing, whereupon usually the band gets seduced by the "sex, drugs, rock 'n' roll" lifestyle promised by the labels, the rest is predictable. . . I've always bailed when it comes to sell-out time, but royalties still happen - so it's like an investment of time out of love for the music, but the actual business side of things is generic, and hella boring (to me) even though that's where the money lies (management with a "stable" of bands to profit from).

anyhow!  what I mean to say is, in "alternative" music, there's a healthier balance, both onstage & behind the scenes.  that goes for most things I reckon - "alternative" often just means folk who are outside the main(stream), whose ideas are relatively different.  in my local circle I have 2 friends who are female engineers - both their partners are in more "creative" fields, so the engineers earn the bulk of the household monies.  also have a CPA friend whose partner is a stay at home dad, they've a 2yr old, and plan another.  all by way of saying, there ARE exceptions to the "rule" out there.

I'm going to offer up an observation which you are of course free to ignore *grin* - maybe your framing of females as "the gentle sex" feeling the "black abyss" of being single is leading you to find women who fit that preconceived notion?  do you have any female friends, no benefits, just trusted friends?  a lot of guys see "friends" as their male "buds" and only seek out females for sex - not pointing fingers, just noting, k?  I get guys saying really stupidly inappropriate things to me all the time, because they don't really know how to speak to a female as a human, being

lengthy post, thank goodness for the forums so we can all chat on different topics!

maravich44
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@Ginger Man on aWire.(Woman) Documentary

If chances and time permit, check this out,your Avatar suggests as much. Stay the good fight.

154_silver
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It's really kind of strange

It's really kind of strange for me though to think that more men are with the program than women on these issues. Certainly not from my personal experience. But I do see that there are far more men on TFs blog than there are women.

It's been my personal experience that females are just as interested in what's going down in the world, they may have a somewhat different "agenda" in resolving it for themselves (and family) than some men do.  Doesn't surprise me that TF's blog has far more men, given that he came from ZH, and I recognise many here from "there."

Most of the females I know locally are involved in working small-holdings, and don't even bother much with the internet as they're pretty busy!  But those drawn to writing create many many blogs to share their knowledge - since I'm not interested in trading at this point in time (PM holder, not into paper or pixels), when online I like to check in on spaces like Food Freedom, Energy Bulletin (Sharon Astyk is great!), and Barbara Peterson's Farm Wars - making money is great, but if you're not up-to-speed with what's going on behind the corporate takeover of food / right to grow, then you're in for quite a shock down the road. (and not "you" personally, but any "one").  The poisoning of our air and water continues at a shocking pace, and few want to acknowledge it, which is a shame.

Like you, I came from "humble beginnings" - very much so - perhaps that's why we take an interest in maintaining some economic stability, having experienced the downside?  I've had a lot of friends who just idle days while waiting for their "inheritance" - and are realising this isn't going to be the cushion under their a** they'd hoped for - oooops!  Perhaps some females also rely on the "I'll choose to secure wealth in a partner" rather than bring an independent self to the partnership. 

Anyhow, anyone who's interested, here's a few links mentioned above:

http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/

http://www.energybulletin.net/authors/Sharon+Astyk

http://farmwars.info/?cat=134

best wishes!

reefman
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154, Interesting response.

154,

Interesting response. Regarding the "black abyss" that is sort of how I feel about total and complete freedom. Think of Abraham lying there on his back in the blackest of nights and staring up at the stars. There was NOTHING there, just the earth, some plants and the black emptiness of total freedom - sort of like a painter staring at a blank canvas - just waiting for someone to fill in the void. So for me it pertains to both men and women, but I just get the sense that women more than men get the creeps when there is nothing there but themselves - they like to have something solid beneath their feet so they feel secure. I think we all feel that way to a certain degree, but we men (real men, that is) tend to want to BUILD something beneath our feet rather than latch on to a woman for support or the government for a bailout etc.  I think we want to prove to ourselves that we have what it takes to fence off our territory and do something productive with it and then invite a special "gentler sex" in to enjoy it with us. What good is it if there is no one there to ENJOY it with us? We like that affirmation from the female because it sort of tells us that we can turn the abyss into something that produces life. 

I think men seek out females to provide that reassurance that we (men) have what it takes - but yes one can not deny that sex is a part of all that. The secret with men and sex is that his primary goal is to get the woman to a state where she takes pleasure in him. If she doesn't enjoy it, then that's the worst thing. Anyway I am way off topic here, but that's what I think anyway. What man would want to just "do her" if she scowled at him all the while? Did you see that scene in "Atlas Shrugged" movie? Oh that pretty much emasculated him right then and there. 

Ok now I'm waffling... :)

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maravich44
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154_silver. *grin* The Rules.@

You made me smile, and that is not easy to do.(Jackson Browne) in there somewhere.  Best.

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154, by the way, what on

154, by the way, what on earth is your avatar? It looks like some extra-terrestral deer or drops of water on a closeup of a plant. 

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Great illustration Reefman

Hello....that makes a lot of sense! :D

I am a married mom who handles the finances more as a function of having the time, but I am also very interested in money, investing, and the economy.  (I do lean tea-party, too, though.)  But what is strange to me is that I usually prefer talking to men because my experience is more men than women have these interests.  Maybe it is due to my social circles at this season in my life.  But now that I'm thinking about it even when I worked full time I talked more with  men. 

But I agree that one reason I love this blog is that TF has created a much more female friendly environment, (totally agree about ZH, Stephanie) and there are wonderful people of integrity who post here.  And it is really great to find like-minded women interested in doing their best to help provide for themselves and their families futures.

Interesting topic, Reefman, and interesting insights from   154_silver, ginger, and valleygirl.  Thanks!

154_silver
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154, by the way, what on

154, by the way, what on earth is your avatar? It looks like some extra-terrestral deer or drops of water on a closeup of a plant.

well done! you're close - it's an insect with dew drops - I'm a weirdo that likes spiders, moths, snakes, etc. - look at his wee eyes, and almost a smile (anthropomorphising, *nods*).

this should make you laugh - I "invite" spiders indoors, and allow them their webs in corners high 'n' low, with the agreement they keep the flying things off my plants.  I happen to love cobwebs, and have been poked mercilessly about this - but my reality includes the "bug" world. . .

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