FAKE COINS

13 posts / 0 new
Last post
Jake
Jake's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 7806
Posts: 477
FAKE COINS

European influx of fakes

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/european-influx-of-fakes/

Counterfeits rise with gold price

By Michael Fahey | June 30, 2011 8:00 a.m.
Article first published in 2011-07-11, Expert Advice section of Coin World

Enlarge this image

http://static.coinworld.com/static/articles/2011/06/27/1898-20m_merged_1.jpg

Click to Enlarge

On this fake 1898-A German 20-mark coin, a small patch of raised tool marks appears on his jaw, just to the right of his ear lobe.

Images by Raymond Bruels III, courtesy of ANACS.

As the price of gold continues its upward march, we are seeing more counterfeit gold coins in the ANACS grading room. Many of these fakes are common-date pieces that are worth less than $50 over their bullion value, while others are slightly better dates or varieties.

As you might expect, most of the fake gold coins we are seeing are counterfeits of United States issues.

However, we are encountering an increasing number of counterfeits of European gold coins, including pieces mimicking coins from Great Britain, France, Germany and Italy.

Coins that contain approximately one-quarter of an ounce of gold seem to be the most popular targets for the counterfeiters.

The counterfeit Germany-Prussia 1898-A gold 20-mark coin shown here is a good example of this trend. A genuine 20-mark piece contains a little less than a quarter ounce of gold, and typically trades for a small premium above its gold content. This fake has the same weight and gold content as a genuine example, so it cannot be detected with a scale.

On the plus side, because of the fake’s gold content, a collector who ends up with one of these pieces will not suffer a total loss, as is the case with fake 1916-D Winged Liberty Head dimes or 1909-S Lincoln, v.d.b. cents.

While the color of the gold and the sharpness of the details on this counterfeit are reasonably close to a genuine coin, a few diagnostic defects on the face of Wilhelm II make detection easy. A small patch of raised tool marks appears on his jaw, just to the right of his ear lobe.

Tool marks occur on a counterfeit coin when the fake die is scratched or scraped with a sharp tool, usually to smooth out a defect on the die. An incuse scratch on the die will translate to a raised line on the fake coin, and small patches of tool marks are normally a strong indication that the coin is counterfeit.

The counterfeit also has a few raised “pimples” of metal on Wilhelm’s jaw and chin. By themselves, small raised lumps do not condemn a coin, since they also occur on genuine coins. However, when combined with patches of tool marks, these pimples are additional evidence that the coin is not genuine.

German gold coins from the 1890s typically exhibit superior craftsmanship, so the defects described in the column should immediately raise red flags about the coin’s authenticity.

michael fahey is a senior numismatist at ANACS in Denver, Colo.

Edited by admin on 11/08/2014 - 06:31

__________________

Your Silver--I Want to Buy it! Sell Me Your Silver!

Seb
Seb's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/15/2011
Hat Tips: 85
Posts: 34
Fake gold coins made from real gold

Jake wrote:
A genuine 20-mark piece contains a little less than a quarter ounce of gold, and typically trades for a small premium above its gold content. This fake has the same weight and gold content as a genuine example, so it cannot be detected with a scale.

On the plus side, because of the fake’s gold content, a collector who ends up with one of these pieces will not suffer a total loss, as is the case with fake 1916-D Winged Liberty Head dimes or 1909-S Lincoln, v.d.b. cents.

So my understanding is that the gold purity and quantity are correct. Who cares about the numismatic value of gold coins? If I would be interested in that, I would collect stamps.

tmosley
tmosley's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 14948
Posts: 1674
That's why you only buy

That's why you only buy bullion coins.

Jake
Jake's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 7806
Posts: 477
Seb wrote: Jake wrote:A

Seb wrote:

Jake wrote:
A genuine 20-mark piece contains a little less than a quarter ounce of gold, and typically trades for a small premium above its gold content. This fake has the same weight and gold content as a genuine example, so it cannot be detected with a scale.

On the plus side, because of the fake’s gold content, a collector who ends up with one of these pieces will not suffer a total loss, as is the case with fake 1916-D Winged Liberty Head dimes or 1909-S Lincoln, v.d.b. cents.

So my understanding is that the gold purity and quantity are correct. Who cares about the numismatic value of gold coins? If I would be interested in that, I would collect stamps.

Two Responses: First, there is no Coin or Numi Forum Here.

Second: I didn't write that---The Author, whom I cited did.

Judging from your response, you did not see the reason I posted this. It was simply posted as a reminder that fake coins will probably become more prevalent as the price of gold increases. That's all.

__________________

Your Silver--I Want to Buy it! Sell Me Your Silver!

Jake
Jake's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 7806
Posts: 477
tmosley wrote: That's why you

tmosley wrote:

That's why you only buy bullion coins.

of course, what idiot would buy numi coins?

Edit: well, let me rephrase that: What idiot would buy numi coins thinking they'll get back even a reasonable fraction of the numi portion of the original purchase price?

__________________

Your Silver--I Want to Buy it! Sell Me Your Silver!

Seb
Seb's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/15/2011
Hat Tips: 85
Posts: 34
Jake wrote:Two Responses:

Jake wrote:
Two Responses: First, there is no Coin or Numi Forum Here.

Second: I didn't write that---The Author, whom I cited did.

Judging from your response, you did not see the reason I posted this. It was simply posted as a reminder that fake coins will probably become more prevalent as the price of gold increases. That's all.

I know that you are not the author, but that is the way the forum works when you want to quote a paragraph from a post.

I agree that this is not a numismatic forum so most of the users here are probably only interested in the value of the precious metal from a coin, not in the coin's numismatic value. So, in that sense those are not "fake" coins. I would not pay any premium for any real or alleged numismatic value anyway.

Know More
Know More's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 108
Posts: 73
Some examples, simple device for testing

arch stanton
arch stanton's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/15/2011
Hat Tips: 2079
Posts: 196
fake krugs

I sold 5 krugs the other day to a dealer I have been doing business with for twenty years.  They are very small and local and we have a longstanding trusted relationship.  She started scanning the coins with the gizmo they use to buy chains and rings that tells them gold content.  I asked her what the hell she was doing checking what were obviously kruggerands, and she replied that they had bought a bogus krug about a week before.  She wouldn't tell me how it was faked or how they discovered it but she did scan all the coins.  I don't know what this portends except it's getting scary being on the buy side out there.  By the way, before anyone jumps on me for the stupidity of selling, I had a choice, raise some cash or go to jail--the IRS won't take gold and I am a cashless society--I am all in.

Tim
Tim's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 43
Posts: 15
I buy Numi coins all the

I buy Numi coins all the time. Probably because it's my hobby but why not if you can get them for the same price as bullion. I like Eagles ( $10 gold coins) and if I can get one for 800 or less I will buy with both hands. Most dealers will pay you a primium for old gold too.

Nowhuffo
Nowhuffo's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2011
Hat Tips: 802
Posts: 20
If it has gold what is the difference

Try selling a coin by describing it as; "fake but it has real gold in it." No liquidity.

Numastics can also be considered a leveraged buy on gold. Risky like a junior miner but with the ability to increase greatly in value.  That's the basic thought. It is actually a little more complex than that.

JumpingJackFlash
JumpingJackFlash's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/15/2011
Hat Tips: 2
Posts: 2
Bent Bullion Blues

I received an order of gold maple leafs yesterday from RBC, and I couldn't be more disappointed. Scratches, dings, a couple of the coins are even BENT. "They are.. authentic" the customer rep actually said, obviously at a loss for words. 

Do yourself a favor: Never, EVER order bullion from RBC. I sourced out RBC after the stories came out about Kitco's woes with the taxman last month, but Kitco still seems to be in business. I wanted to place my order with Tulving, but they apparently don't take orders from outside the U.S.

Maybe slightly off topic, but I had to vent.

bern
bern's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/27/2011
Hat Tips: 1221
Posts: 265
Know More - thanks for the

Know More - thanks for the vids.  I had not seen that Fisch Coin Tester before but I'm going to look into it. 

__________________

Liberty Library ~ PM Bug

No1Hunter
No1Hunter's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/16/2011
Hat Tips: 1324
Posts: 144
what idiot would buy numi coins?

Jake wrote:

tmosley wrote:

That's why you only buy bullion coins.

of course, what idiot would buy numi coins?

Edit: well, let me rephrase that: What idiot would buy numi coins thinking they'll get back even a reasonable fraction of the numi portion of the original purchase price?

I laughed all the way to the bank after selling my 2008 W Gold Buffalos that I bought at issue price.  You just need to know when and what to buy, sell and take the profits.   I still have some PCGS 70 Buffalos that are selling for 4 to 5 times what I paid for them.  About the time I think of selling them, they go up.  But soon, it will be time to bit the bullet and let them go.

If the world ends before selling, the profits may be lost.  But the same could be said with that stack of silver you are sitting on.  You just don't really know.  Sometimes you have to roll the dice and see what you get.  Just like when I dumped a bunch of silver at around $48 and then bought back in at $32 - $36.  Now I have more.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Topic locked
Syndicate contentComments for "FAKE COINS"