Forging Ahead
It is my sincere hope that we all learned something from the last blog post. You may have asked yourself, "why did Turd allow such a controversial topic to be the main thread for over 48 hours?". I'll tell you why. It was for a few, very simple reasons.
We are rapidly approaching a time when you must know what you believe in. You will soon be tested and forced to decide if, how and when you are going to act and react. The previous thread was part of a larger plan to get you thinking. If you enter the days ahead clinging to traditional notions without thoroughly considering why you believe such things, you risk becoming a rudderless ship, loose and unstable upon the waves of change.
Thank you all for keeping the discussion far more civil than similar discussions of similar topics elsewhere on the internet. We all have much to learn and we must all learn from each other. Disrespect and name-calling serves no purpose. To learn, grow, prepare and survive, we must be willing to consider the equally valid points-of-view of others. For example, I have never been the victim of police brutality. However, after reading the comments of "kumanari" on Friday, I can certainly see how having some experience in this area might permanently change your point of view. Finding common ground through diversity of opinion provides a strong foundation for the days ahead. And, if this site is to survive, our foundation must be substantial.
All of this above applies to me, too. I'm the one who is ultimately responsible for growing this site. Therefore, for a strong foundation, I must be honest and forthright at all times. There will certainly always be issues where we disagree but it is incumbent upon me to tell you where I stand. If I try to hide my positions or obfuscate when challenged, the site will fail.
So, expect more "controversial" threads in the days and weeks to come. Again, not because I'm trying to enforce my ideas and ideologies upon anyone. If you and I are going to be leaders of our families and friends, you must know what you believe in. The world is entering a period of darkness where only forged and tested beliefs can safely guide you to the other side.
Along, those lines, do you believe in gold and silver or not? I ask this because right now is one of those times when you have to know for sure. You are being tested. Sophomoric financial analysts and writers are trying desperately to convince you to sell your metal. Planted trolls are registering here in greater numbers in a coordinated effort to confuse and scare you. So, do you believe them? Do you know what you know because you've tested your ideas and found them to be correct? Has this given you a strong foundation or are you quivering? Are you ready to acquire more metal at $25 and $1500 or are you so uncertain in your beliefs that you'd prefer the relative "safety" of rejoining the flock, just as it heads into the pen for slaughter? Physical demand is extremely high and the Commitment of Traders report has rarely looked more bullish but the manipulated, paper price is low and falling. What do you believe? How are you going to act?
Finally, I'd like to thank Stephanie and all of the moderators for their extraordinary efforts in keeping the previous thread relatively harmonious and on-topic. Thanks, too, to all of the Turdites for respecting their efforts and for making terrific contributions to the cause. Never forget, we are all here to help each other and learn from each other. We must continue this effort while we can.
I hope you're ready for another crazy and unpredictable week that will culminate with the September BLSBS on Friday. After a brief hiatus, expect a return of the recent volatility. TF
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Comments
@ReachWest
I'm moving your post about Occupy and Adbusters to the original thread, because it's still active and perhaps best to keep all that conversation going there. It's Sunday and I think some folks are going to want to discuss PMs and the market more here on this new thread, as the day progresses. Not to say we won't have topic drift, but your post brings up a lot of interesting questions and I think best to move to the old topic:
http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/2551/revolution-and-revolutionaries
Thank you!
EconFreefall
"Technical damage has been made to silver and is noted by many pundits. Just remember that it's largely an orchestrated smash which has been delivered and the fundamental drivers behind the silver bull are not only intact, but improving. They will soon take charge of price action again." (emphasis mine).
BOP: So there it is. BTFD while it is here. It isn't going to last forever.
I'll take the other side of the $24 and $1500 bottom feeder forecast. People protesting on Wall St and in front of Fed banks? We've never seen that before. The word is out and the fuse has been lit. People are finally waking up to all of this nonsense.
I say we see an explosive rally within the next few weeks. Maybe one for the history books. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it right here and take the well deserved abuse.
So what do you believe? I know what I do.
GOLD & SILVER BITCHEZ.
Thanks Turd & A Note On Trolls
Thank you for the kind words, Turd! Aww, shucks! :-)
A note on trolls and IP addresses - we do monitor IP addresses attached to accounts. No, don't worry, we aren't concerning ourselves with most contributors here, but we have noticed that sometimes multiple accounts will be made from one IP address - usually these are spammers. In fact, I have just written up some guidelines explaining how we might potentially handle "IP abuse."
We do also monitor potential "paid trolls" or astroturfers. We have not yet blocked an account for this, but if we ever got enough hard evidence that this was going on, we would probably suspend the account. And yes, we do look into suspicious hat tip activity in relation to potential astroturf.
All that said, please try to give a person a little leeway when they come to the site and express a contrarian opinion. There's a fine line between "Troll Busting" and simply silencing people who have an alternative viewpoint. What I think is great about this site is how so many diverse people can communicate in a relatively flame-free environment. We want contrary opinions, as long as they are shared sincerely and without malice.
So please try to give the benefit of the doubt before labeling a newbie "Instant Troll." We don't want to go the route of massive online lynch mobs. Let's observe and monitor and then make a decision based on more data than one or two contrary posts.
Thank you!
Thanks TF
We are being tested. No question there.
TPTB have probably weakened the fence sitters for now but in the long run the longer this slower upwards trend plays out the better. We don't need to see parabolic anytime soon and this type of Crimex intervention is going to happen again to a much larger degree.
What we have to figure out is when the confluence of factors that are favorable to the banks are a detriment to the PM market. In hindsight, the end of the corporate qtr. and the end of the Govt.'s fiscal budget year coupled with the Fed. announcement of Twist and the managed market downturn was the perfect set up for the margin hikes and the MOPE that took place during that whole period.
I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. banks turned a small profit despite all of the belly-aching and losses they supposedly are incurring. I see in EuroLand that the banks actually managed to squeak out a small qtrly. profit. They'll do anything to help the banks and that's what we should expect going forward. They'll do anything and at the times where it will have the most impact.
When's the next big event in a negative way? Dec. 30, 2011 or Jan. 2, 2012?
@Stephanie
Moving that post makes sense - thanks.
Steph
correct
Think Nadless Nadler at Kitco and that repulsive Gartman.
@turd
27 thousand hits?, wow, thats got to be a record. That was fun, of course everyone on TF is a rebel so, they will hold opinions, strong ones.
@kingboo - Well
@kingboo - Well Said.
"Without the 2nd Amendment, all of the others are merely a political theory."
"Without economic freedom, political freedom is just an academic exercise."
@bop
ZH has an astonishing 4 part video entitled MELTDOWN, chilling.
Reuters is reporting
Reuters is reporting that Greece will miss its deficit targets !! Its also on Zerohedge !!
PMs - Who Do You Trust?
"To Thine Own Self Be True". When the light goes on, it better be in your own head, and not a candle borrowed from someone else. I started stacking in 1988 when I realized that no matter how much I admired Reagan, Federal deficit spending was a road to ruin for the USD and only gold would save my wealth from the downfall. It wasn't until many years later that I started reading people like Jim Sinclair and James Turk. After finding Ted Butler, I started increasing my silver stack greatly. These last few weeks have not been fun, but I still trust certain people out there (those names and others), but I have to trust myself continually. I am the only one I can blame if this does not go well.
I hope others here can talk about their own personal epiphanies.
Where I Stand
Got a delivery of 12 ASEs yesterday. They're pretty.
7 more ASEs and 4 ten ounce bars should be arriving next week.
My dollar cost average is down by 50 cents. I've still got a little more cash if needed. Bring it on.
Civil discourse is the best way to bring out the truth .
stephanie said;
"So please try to give the benefit of the doubt before labeling a newbie "Instant Troll." We don't want to go the route of massive online lynch mobs. Let's observe and monitor and then make a decision based on more data than one or two contrary posts."
I totally agree stephanie. Some people may in fact be trolls, but as long as they are not verbally abusive and viciously attack another member with name calling, they can actually help spark good debate which brings out many important points of view. The point is simple civility is the key, regardless of our disagreement with the views of the poster. Diverse opinion is healthy and leads to truth discovery just as free markets can lead to price discovery. So, I respect yours and Turd's general tolerance of all points of view and placing civility at the top of your intentions for this site.
I am not afraid to debate even trolls sent by Bank of America, because I am dead certain I am in the right, and have a very solid foundation of principle and premise with which to defend my reasoned and considered opinion.
@lamare - how can the theory
@lamare - how can the theory be dismissed when it continues to survive the "test and experiment" part of the scientific process. Don't jump to conclusions based on scientific reporting in the popular press. They usually get it wrong anyhow or don't report things completely. Give it time. As someone who has experience getting into a "peered-reviewed" journal, please don't make comparisons to the Fed and their control of the financial system - that is definitely not a "test and experiment" arena.
PS - Just finished that article - fascinating thoughts. To ultimately prove who's right and wrong (Tesla versus Einstein) seems to me that it would require that someone has to invent an anti-gravity machine, a gravity-producing machine, or a gravity shield. If that can be done, it would prove that space-time is not a 4-dimensional manifold, but simply a human construct for convenience.
I must admit - I am not a "fan" of Tesla - he was good at what he did (high-voltage power generation and transmission) and we are in his debt (even more than Edison), but he was not some all-seeing mega-shaman that some some say he was.
Stunning Plunge in COMEX Commercial Silver Net Short Positions
Hi
Interesting link
http://www.gotgoldreport.com/2011/09/stunning-plunge-in-comex-commercial-silver-net-short-positions.html
Repetition mother of knowledge-Silver,gold and doublerecession
Hence I repost time tested SILVER (made on March 13th 2011 ) and GOLD (Made on May 4th 2011) charts, which indicate nothing special on both metals till April 2012, and , even then, nothing special in gold. SILVER , though, will shoot up to 100USD+-10% in October 2012 . Then oscillate more or less in tact with GOLD. Will it buy more cars of bread then than today? That is what I want and answer from more knowledgeable people here. Definitely, GOLD:SILVER ratio will shrink- so the charts say, close to longterm historic average 1:16. Why could it be?
(to read the correctly, SILVER graph has 50 USD instead of 45- a mistake while drawing the price axis in Paint, while it is suggested that for future predictions GOLD graph has to be moved one month to the left- however, that is not given, since I predicted also May silver overbuy one month earlier, however, the September drop was spot on):
Silver:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40#p31020
SILVER prediction accuracy up till today:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2860#p34294
GOLD:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=220#p32176
Accuracy up till today:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2860#p34296
DJIA and recession in Q1 2012:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p30485
Accuracy up till today:
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2860#p34298
So here are my questions:
1) Why would SILVER :GOLD ratio move in favour of SILVER even if USD, EUR, GPB by that time will have lost a lot of value and USD its reserve status de facto plus USA will be in default either by devaluation or some other uncontrollable process/conscious decision?
2) What would happen in general if USD loses its value and reserve status ? What would be geopolitical consequences and non-financial actions by debt holders?
3) When the USA defaults de facto in 2012, it will also default on its obligations to USA citizens, not only foreign countries. What would be the reaction of people and government? Would it be possible to use stacked silver or gold to protect oneself, or will it be made illegal to posses gold and silver?
4) What would be the level of civil order in the USA in this case of default vs. its citizens ? What could be the level of inflation? Since I do not live there, I have no idea how bad it can get between the state, states, municipal and the citizens in case of the USA default? As we see in Greece, its heating up already before imminent default.
Thank You in advance. I appreciate answers to these questions ( or raising of more, more relevant questions) as I would like to see better what the endgame could be, what alternatives will exist, what fights may happen, and what are proposals to deal with all this in practice so that there is also some collective light in the end of the tunnel?
The situation today is much more dangerous than just devaluation of the USD, EUR, vs. commodities/necessities, where those who stack come out as easy winners. Can not be so simple.
And its closing on us fast. After 6 months the world will already be a totally different place.
@turd - keep up the posts...
TF- thanks for the last post - i think it is good to kick a controversial post in every once in a while ...
good to hear different 'sides of the story' to full information before you fine tune what you truly 'believe' in ...
The First Amendment is backed up by the Second !!
It's the 2nd Amendment!
re Meltdown
I watched the first two parts basically spell-bound, but I have to admit that when I saw that it had been produced by Radio-Canada for al Jazeera I became suspicious. Then I watched the third installment and it turns away from the evil bankers and politicians - who are truly skewered in the first two segments - and turns to workers rioting. And we subtly hear that at least in Iceland or somewhere they had a generous social safety-net (though technically bankrupt and with higher taxes and fewer social services as stated earlier). So despite an excellent beginning it turns to the usual union produced, workers bear the brunt while corporate executives fly high, trash the offices and burn tires routine. Their daddies and grand-daddies worked at the auto plant forever - they will never get another job, yada, yada, and forgets all about the evil bankers and gov't officials. My tax dollars at work.
Turd, glad to see you to take it forward, BUT...
just be sure that like all of us, you take the medicine you're prescribing. After this, many of us will be holding you to it. As you may now realize like never before, most folks here already knew the Rabbit Hole goes a whole lot deeper and gets much stranger than PM manipulation. It's not ringfenced as the sole corruption zone. It is not the EE's sole sandbox in which to steal your toys. The world is their oyster bro.
"Be sure you know what you believe in" : well yes, and that is no doubt admirable. But is it really practical Turd? Here's why it may not be: it requires that the Truth is easily known, or learned, by the masses. Well, no, it is not. Not even close. In fact, today the opposite is more true. So in recognition of that little hitch , here's what I've come up with as a refinement of the above:
BE REALLY REALLY REALLY CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE
It's more effective at teaching an even more important lesson than yours. Because far better men than you and I have been wrong about far less than matters such as these dude. A quick for instance: now just where'd all those pre-9/11 Puts on American and United Airlines come from? What do you think may have given those fine "investors" such unique "market insights"? Well of course we don't know, now do we? Because that's what happens when you get a joke of an "investigation" whose conclusions are just every bit as well-founded and respected as those of the freaking Warren Commission...
You might want to check out the name Buzzy Krongaard in connection to that whole Airline Put thing. It has never been seriously investigated, never mind any Justus meted out to those who profited on the fore knowledge of this particular False Flag/PsyOp. Of course there's dozens and dozens of other devastatingly effective indicators that 9/11 was, shall we say, other than advertised, but as an investor myself (and a long time follower of the CIA's "antics") I was always fascinated by just exactly what the fuck went on up in there...
BE REALLY REALLY REALLY CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE
Because if one is really being brave and honest, in our times, just what basis does any Prole like you or me even have to know what to "believe"? And using only just our own Life Lessons, then why, please tell me why would anyone possibly believe the "govt" and the obviously lying MSM about something as monumentally important as 9/11??? I mean, we already know the fuckers lie and have lied about everything since WWII. Or did I get that bit wrong? Am I to take it that you are you seriously suggesting that we should believe they've made 9/11 the ONE exception to the ironclad Rule Of Lies???
As Chris Carter says on ESPN: C'mon Man!
Make no mistake here, NO ONE has any real basis to reach any valid conclusion that 9/11 happened the way our "govt." said it did. And that most certainly includes you. To think other is to fool oneself. If anyone wants to, your pick, knock yourselves out. But do realize all it's ever going to be is just that: only that persons own take. What it is not is any kind of provable, testable conclusion based on "truth". About 9/11 at least, we haven't even seen any yet.
How Do You Recognize a True Alternative?
Saturday, 1. October 2011 by Sibel Edmonds
Boiling Frogs Post Subscription Countdown Status
We brought to our readers a sobering four-part series on U.S. Psychological Warfare, 9/11 & the American Narrative, written and presented to you by distinguished investigative authors Elizabeth Gould and Paul Fitzgerald. In this series we dared to delve into the real history, context and facts long censored by mainstream authors and quasi alternatives alike. By doing this, once again we managed to ruffle some feathers, and kicked our daring content up another notch or two.
We dedicated an entire month to our podcast coverage of hard-hitting facts and proven cover-ups related to 9/11, and presented to you experts and analysts who have long been outcast by the mainstream media intimidated by naked truths. We dared their ‘marginalization tactics & threats’; they lost-our listeners won.
We have been producing and showcasing our one-of-a-kind video series on topics long-considered ‘no-no’ by the establishment and their tentacles. Our partner, James Corbett, has been delving into ‘hot-potato’ cases; from Afghanistan’s White Gold-Heroin, to the CIA-News Media joint operation and partnership. With documented facts on our side we have been sawing through their thick and crusty cover made of lies. Every day, with every single additional video viewer, we are expanding the number of those in the know, and shrinking the size of their reliable majority....
A warning to all trolls repeated
Before you come on this site and attempt to complain about Turd’s less than perfect short term predictions and PM price projections, let me warn you, and warn you good. The average denizen of this site is so well informed, so educated, and sophisticated that you had better know your stuff before you spout off your nonsense. We, here, are extremely protective of our Turd. We absolutely will not tolerate unwarranted, uninformed, nor malicious criticism of Turd or this site. We will gang up on you and tear you to shreds if you attempt to do so. We know that Turd is not able to predict, with flawless precision, what the exact price of silver or gold will be on any given day or time period. We don’t need you telling us that he disappointed you in some way or another by failing to provide you with the exact price of the PM’s in advance one day, or one week. Any fool knows that that is humanly impossible, so don’t be a stupid fool and expect otherwise.
This is a place for learning, sharing ideas, expertise, and experiences in all matters relating to PM’s and the forces that affects it’s price trends. We are not here to throw about ad hominem attacks against you or other fellow PM bulls and bugs. We will not tolerate childish rants, name calling, or complaints that have no merit nor well reasoned argument to support it. If what you have to offer does not help to foster an atmosphere of camaraderie, friendship, and mutual support and education, don’t bother making comments here. So, take heed all you mean spirited malicious trolls, Turd detractors, and PM haters. We are watching. We are legion !!
P.S.; The above is from an earlier post that was well received then, so I thought it was appropriate to repeat it again here.
Appleseed, Kingboo, Turd.... (edited)
Know where you stand. Yes. Yesterday my family and I took part in Appleseed, which offers rifle training in weekend workshops combined with teaching a little history of the American Revolution. It was a wonderful day. My son and I had never shot a rifle, although my kiddo was a natural thanks to air soft guns and video games. : D My husband is a pretty good shot. But the most important thing was hearing stories of the heroes who fought for our freedom. I highly recommend Appleseed, I think they are in just about every state.
The men and women who devoted their lives to the freedom of our country knew what they believed in. The were tested and passed with flying colors. I pray we can emulate them in their conviction and courage. They were also excellent riflemen and at the end of the day I had a new appreciation I hope I never forget!
And the metals, yes I believe!!
Edit to add: Appleseed does NOT advocate using violence and arms now. They encourage using our freedom of speech, voting, and participation in our political process!!
@ewc58
Great post man! Well said and well presented.
Greece is still the
Greece is still the Word.
Greece's 2012 deficit to be 8.5% of GDP: report
Greece 2012 deficit target was 7.6%: report
Greek government OK's 2012 budget: reports
Some good numbers to be
Some good numbers to be invested in:
45, 38, 357, 7.62x39, 22, 9, 7mm, 30.06, 270, 12g. Appleseed is a darn good investment as well. Thanks for the reminder Maryann! Did it last year, will do again as it gets cooler here in Fl.
Thanks TF
I scoped out out your lead comments on the other infamous post and would like to say well done.
1- We need the cops, chaos sucks.
2- We don't need more communism in this country, we already have too much. Screw European socialism & all its proponents.
Tax the rich? Soak the rich? You still going to feel that way when YOUR SALARY AND ASSETS make you one of the rich?
The day may be coming when your stash of precious metals or your 30k per year job or your full coverage HEALTH INSURANCE means you are wealthy according to the then current definition. Somehow I don't think you robbers of the rich will call for more taxation quite so loudly in that case.
I sleep well at night!
There will always be turmoil in our lives. If we prepare for the down-side of that turmoil, we can sleep well at night.
Here's a short video of John Lennon's song 'How Do You Sleep?' At the end of the video, John realizes the truth. Realize truth and keep stacking!
@ Obergruppenführer benroberts13
So the expectation from our host is to prepare for $1500 gold and silver at $24.
After he spent most of September being bullish and wrong (okay, humongously wrong with the $1804 bottom call) and having gone with the sleepy summer narrative on June 13th by anticipating that: 'I strongly suspect that these "doldrums" have now begun and that gold will be rangebound, roughly between 1460 and 1550 until mid to late August' (http://tfmetalsreport.blogspot.com/2011/06/just-mucking-fugly.html) then I am emboldened by this update to purchase more yellow stuff first thing tomorrow morning because he's somehow transformed himself into the best contrarian indicator that I know of.
If you or any other self-appointed adjudicator of what's acceptable around here find the words wrong and humongously wrong above not to your taste then hard cheese because I stand by them as they're warranted.
Free speech is the fundament of any free society
Thanks benroberts for noting the importance of free speech. Here is my take on the importance of free speech.
Free speech is the fundament of any free society, lose it and the free society is gone!
Some say we need some degree of censorship to protect society from demagogues and keep the discourse civil. I say, any degree or kind of censorship is a great danger to our free society. Troll's cannot stand the light, they die. Any idea good or bad filtered by public discourse, is handled in the best way. Anything that escape the light of day and hide behind a wall of silence or censorship works to destroy our free society.
Today the the freedom of speech is going global through the internet and free media. Bypassing TV and the old paper media everyone is editor in chief and good pieces go viral. This is a huge historical paradigm shift in access to information and a golden chance to free the world. We are on the edge of a Dark age and the beginning of a new Renaissance. Its your choice where we go and it starts with you deciding if you want to allow free speech.