TFMR Podcast #14 - Ned Naylor-Leyland Discusses PAGE, Silver and True Price Discovery

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“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

― Richard Buckminster Fuller

Please stop what you're doing and listen to this extremely important interview with Ned Naylor-Leyland of Cheviot Asset Management in London.

Many have wondered what happened to the Pan Asia Gold Exchange. We were all excited last summer when we first heard about it but, then, things went eerily quiet. Today, Ned Naylor-Leyland and Andrew Maguire are finally able to go public with an update on PAGE and, more importantly, information on a brand new exchange that will soon begin trading a spot, physical silver contract.

Please do three things for me:

  1. Listen to this entire podcast.
  2. Read the research note below that Ned published today for Cheviot clients.
  3. Listen to Andy Maguire's interview with Eric King. It can be found here: http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/3/2_Whistleblower_Maguire_-_US_Entity_Interferes_in_Gold_Market.html

Today is an historic day in the effort to dislodge the imperial forces that dominate the leveraged, paper markets of gold and silver. We must to grateful to Ned, Andy and all those involved in making this new silver exchange a reality. Ned promises to keep us posted with more details as the launch of the exchange draws near. For now, be comfortable in knowing that we have powerful allies who are intent upon making obsolete the existing model and will soon put forth a new structure, one that finally allows for true price discovery in the precious metals.

TF

P.A.G.E. Squashed: And now for something completely different...

by,

Ned Naylor-Leyland, Cheviot Asset Management

Last year at the GATA Goldrush 2011 conference I presented about the Pan Asia Gold Exchange (PAGE) and the likelihood of the ‘Spot Dog’ shaking off its ‘futures handlers’. This was to happen thanks to this new    game-changing    Chinese Exchange driving a return to a more acceptable form of price discovery. Much water has passed under the bridge since the ‘soft’ opening of PAGE in the early summer of last year, and everyone is well overdue an update. Meanwhile,thanks in no small measure to the debacle at MFGlobal, the spot dog has indeed thrown off its handlers (hence the emergence of backwardation in Silver) – but, as can be inferred from the title above, PAGE has also been squashed, Monty Python-style.

Fortunately, however, this is far from the full story, as the players behind the 1:1 allocated market concept are determined to make it run come hell and/or high water. The market is begging for this return to real price discovery and in spite of the interference so far, the change IS coming. It is disappointing to have to report that PAGE has not rolled out the way we anticipated, however everything that I presented at the GATA Goldrush conference was accurate at the time. The fact that a major Chinese regional development program was stalled appears, at least in part, to have been due to the publicity generated by Andrew Maguire and I. Too much is very evidently at stake in the world of Ponzi Bullion banking for the status quo not to fight its corner. Soon after the noise was made about PAGE and its forthcoming 1:1 allocated Gold contract, the shenanigans started. Just after the publicized ‘soft launch’ (with Central government mandarins in attendance) and the noise made on the internet about its implications, the one shareholder in PAGE that had a foreign listing (in the US) suddenly and stealthily increased its share-holding from 10% to 25%, acquiring additional board directors along the way. The rationale for this sudden change in the weighting of shareholders is shrouded in mystery, however what we do know is that this entity then insisted that they be allowed to build the trading platforms for PAGE from the ground up, rather than buying a working platform off the shelf to get PAGE operational in a timely manner.

This blocking tactic at board level effectively stopped the progress of the fully-allocated spot contract in its tracks, and it was immediately clear to the international-facing people that something fundamental had changed internally.    Interestingly, the key Independent Director of this small listed entity that blocked the timely roll-out of PAGE is a well-known Western banker within China, whose CV includes work for the Federal Trade Commission, the Sloan Foundation (related to MIT) and his wife is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Whether this intervention respect of the platform was nefarious or not, it was understandable that the people behind the international-facing fully-allocated contract decided to step aside from PAGE and set up their own dedicated exchange. More on that in a moment. Following on from this removal of the 1:1 international contract, the domestic and leveraged PAGE Gold contract (via the Agricultural Bank) also subsequently went the way of the dodo, thanks to the well- publicized People’s Bank of China (PBoC) announcement about control over domestic Gold trading outside of Shanghai. It appears that the shiny Gold building constructed in Kunming City for PAGE will sadly remain (as elsewhere in China) a ‘see- through’, at least until the new Communist Party Politburo are voted in and the new political culture is embedded later this year when who knows, the rules on Gold trading again may be relaxed. Ostensibly these new PBoC rules about Gold trading were brought in to ‘protect the public’, but it is interesting to me that such a U-turn in policy appears to have been driven by pressure exerted somewhere within the People’s Bank, rather than it being typically characteristic of the long-term planning of the Chinese.

As disappointing as this all appears, there is a very substantial Silver lining to what has happened, both respect of the international allocated contracts and the indeed the domestic leveraged ones. By freeing themselves of the other shareholders within PAGE, the international-facing contracts are now being developed independently and under a new name. After the shenanigans of last year Andrew and I will not be giving the name of this new exchange until it is properly ‘live’ in a few months time, as it seems obvious that too much is at stake within the existing Bullion Banking system for this to be allowed to launch without some attempt at interference.

The aforementioned change in domestic Chinese rules mean that along with every other regional Precious Metals exchange, the new unnamed 1:1 allocated exchange is launching with Silver initially, which of course is the Achilles Heel of the Bullion banking system. This in my opinion is far more bullish and exciting short and medium-term than the Gold contract would have been, as the physical Silver market is so tight.    Furthermore, all the regional exchanges mothballed by the PBoC rule change can switch, and are switching to Silver trading which is not covered by the change in rules. The contract itself will be, as before, an international rolling 90 day spot one, denominated in RMB, and the new entity is supported by the same serious players within the Chinese political and military establishment as before. The physical will be acquired ahead of closing each monthly tranche and will be vaulted entirely outside of the Bullion Banks (i.e. private vaulting facilities). From there the allocated receipts will be recorded on an electronic register and the issue will be tradeable in the secondary market with the register adjusted real-time. This is extremely good news for holders of real Silver and extremely bad news for holders of fake paper Silver who rely on the 350:1 leverage being maintained as the world’s sole price discovery mechanism for large purchases of the white metal. This effectively will be like dealing in an RMB-denominated and fully allocated version of some of the popular Silver Bullion Trusts, but rather than trading at a premium, the premium will price the issue ahead of purchase, affecting global price discovery, as previously mooted.

The guts of this new exchange that is rising Phoenix-like from the ashes of PAGE, are agreed and under construction. The international conduit for the new exchange has also been established and is ready to receive business once the legal framework (well down the road) is given final sign off by their Chinese legal team. Unlike PAGE, which was primarily established by domestic Chinese interests, the new entity is much more streamlined, better funded and the problems encountered last year by PAGE have helped to clarify the route going forwards.  All in all, the squashing of the Pan Asia Gold Exchange has in truth only served to accelerate the move to real price discovery, and the control over domestic Gold trading is in my opinion yet another reason to be bullish about the prospects for the Silver price. Once the new exchange is ‘live’ in the summer we will be back with the all- important details about where and how to gain access for those interested in buying physical in size rather than paper illusions. Many serious physical Silver buyers, who are desperate to leave the farce of the Loco London system are ready to jump ship once the final sign off takes place.

Ned Naylor-Leyland
February 2012


320 Comments

Island Guy's picture

A Nickel Isn't What it Used to Be

Katie Rose,

I hate to burst your bubble, but there isn't much nickel in the US Nickel any more.  There is a very easy way to tell that the coinage has been debased (similar to Roman times when less and less PM were put in the coins).  Nickel is magnetic.  Not as much as iron and steel, but still it can be picked up with a magnet.  Try it with a Canadian nickel (which is still made of nickel) or an older US nickel.  The magnet picks it up.  Now try the same thing with a modern US Nickel.  Nothing.  Just like the US took the copper out of the penny, they took the nickel out of the Nickel.

If you really want to stockpile nickel, buy rolls of Canadian Nickels, not the debased US ones.

Tabberto's picture

I agree

with DManson completely, seems like he gets it.  Having listened to both Ned and Andy's interviews it seems that the key issues here are 

A.  Its for the big money that wants physical exposure in size rather than paper exposure with the weak promise of deliverability and the eventual guarantee of a run on the lbma system

B.  Its not as likely to be crushed as it isn't beholden to other shareholder elements who could be 'got at'.

C. That big money moving from one system to the other would effectively lead the paper in the LBMA system to be covered as physical flees - the price action leading from this doesn't take much imagining....

I Run Bartertown's picture

;-0

Be Prepared's picture

Choice A equals Choice B..... and vice versa...

Be Prepared's picture

OBummer is a Bummer!

codematrix's picture

From: Brix -- Reuters Leaks Major Looming Commodities Shake-up

After the markets closed Reuters posted an article on their website that will have MAJOR ramifications in the commodity markets. Here's the article:
 
Insight: Wall Street, Fed Face Off over Physical Commodities
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/02/us-fed-banks-commodities-idUSTRE8211CC20120302
 
Here are some important passages:
 
"While the battle over proprietary trading and new derivatives regulations has taken place largely in public view since the 2008 financial crisis, the fight by JPMorgan Chase, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs to retain or expand their prized physical commodity operations - most acquired in only the past six years - has remained hidden."
 
"The company is engaged in discussions with the Federal Reserve regarding its commodities activities. If the Federal Reserve were to determine that any of the company's commodities activities did not qualify for the BHC (Bank Holding Company) Act grandfather exemption, then the company would likely be required to divest any such activities."
 
But regulators and lawmakers may not be in the mood to give way. Banks are under pressure to reduce risk on their balance sheet; as commodity prices rise again, they may face more allegations that they could use these assets to drive prices higher or lower, squeezing them for trading profits.
 
"Yet it may be JPMorgan, which has eclipsed long-time market leaders Goldman and Morgan under commodities chief Blythe Masters, that will be first to feel its effects."
 
This is a VERY big deal. That's why it was posted on a Friday Night! If the Banksters are no longer allowed to trade in commodities the "official manipulation" of the monetary metals will end. Interestingly, it's JP Morgan and Blythe Masters that are signaled out as being "first to feel its effects"!  
 
BUT BEWARE OF MASSIVE VOLATILITY WHILE THE BANKSTERS TRY TO CLOSE OUT THEIR POSITIONS!! UP AND DOWN!! Stay safe with your metal outside of the system. Just ride out any action.
 
I don't think that this story is coming out now by accident. 
 
I think...IT'S TIME!

opticsguy's picture

Romney and RP

Has anyone read the stories about Ron Paul's PAC and it's ties to Huntsman and Romney?  How come RP's PAC has nasty ads for Santorum and Gingrich, but not Romney?  Here's what I think will happen:

Gingrich will bow out before the convention and the remaining three will  not have enough delegates, and Gingrich's delegates will be free.  Romney knows that many delegates will support RP even though their state may have fudged the vote count (Iowa, Maine anyone?).  Romney can lock this up if he can get the RP supporters, so he chooses Rand Paul for VP, and promises to make RP treasury secretary or something similar (economic adviser, monetary czar).  He will also "promise" to get RP's bill removing taxation on PMs passed (soon to be forgotten after the election).  I don't know why he couldn't just do an executive order like JFK did, WTH.

Anyway, Romney and RP make nice.  Romney pretends to be more Libertarian and claims he was for hard money all along, and gets the nomination.

Reasonable scenario?

Going4it's picture

How are all those Silver Contracts Dumped?

I'm sure someone here can answer this for me.

I do not trade futures just AGQ and stack physical so forgive me if this is an obvious question.

It's my understanding that in order to sell a futures contract, or buy for that matter someone has to be on the opposite side. If that is correct how can so many silver contracts be dumped on the market so quickly. How are buyers for that many shorts lined up so quickly? Again, sorry if this seems like a stupid question but I really don't know the in's and out's of the futures market.

Thanks........

opticsguy's picture

Reuters report

I think this is a smokescreen.  The banks playing in commodities will be blamed for high gasoline and food prices, and Obama will claim to have solved problem by forcing these banks to get out of the commodities.  I'm sure this will be timed to lower gas prices right before the election (remember the GSCI reducing the gasoline component in Oct 2006?). Obama fights for the little guy.

In the meantime some other shadow system will be set up for the banks to profit on commodities.  Theatre, nothing but.

Be Prepared's picture

Banks exit Commodities....

The Fed and the U.S. Government have a vested interest in allowing the banks to continue to act as a manipulating agent on metals and commodities in general.  I have never understood the logic behind banks being the central players in life's resources..... they have every incentive to screw everybody and do constantly.  There is every reason to know that true commodity exchanges, free from bank's direct participation, would function in a true price discovery way.  A Bank's true role might be to loan a business money to properly hedge their position, but that's it.  But it will be a cold day in h@ll before the Banks are booted out of this business....  like OpticsGuy said.... some other shadow system would take place that would still allow them to rule the world.  :-)

Maximillion's picture

USDx scenarios In very simple

USDx scenarios

In very simple terms (as that's all I work in), I can't see the $ increasing much above it's current value for the following reasons;

If I want to protect my purchasing power I need a currency that offers the most stability! If therefore, a fiat currency's demand vs amount already in circulation is likely to fall in the near future then it offers no store of value. The BRICS nations are deliberately moving away from the $, so demand for it can only fall (take for instance Brazil's comments yesterday on the Trillions of $ just added).

The period of the Petrodollar is coming to an end, regardless of whatever military scenarios may, or may not take place. Even on the assumption that Iran were to fall, what's to say the new regime would accept /impose the continuation of the $ as the sole medium of exchange for Oil. In the interim, and based on the historic facts that TPTB (eg rothschilds) have peviously funded both sides of conflicts, where would you want your money kept? Russia / China are against conflict and pro Iran = if they win the $ falls. USA / Europe and Israel are pro regime change = only likely way is war = China/Russia get piss*d off and dump $ first (as that's their highest number) = $ falls.

Similarly, in view of the huge amounts of fiat $ reserves held by China/Russia etc, what's to stop them exchanging these fiat reserves for all the oil they need? As these countries already have $'s to spare, they either remain more competitive by spending their fiat $ reserves, whist the US must print more, just to fund its continuation, with the additional expense of protecting another militarized zone, or they use their fiat $'s to buy physical assets priced in $'s now.

Whilst the USA/ western powers have historically relied on brute force, which is expensive and debt burdening, the BRICS nations and particularly China can afford to use this stategy to their continued advantage. Having dated a few intelligent Chinese ladies, I can tell you first hand, that the ones in power, are very well educated, study/work a lot harder than most of their western counterparts, have been taught a thorough understanding of the Opium war era of history, still hold a school taught grudge (which is wholly understandable), and are ruthless in business with no regard for traditional fair play stuff. As a simple example, here in the UK when the MG / Rover car group was struggling financially, the clever UK owners went to China in order to sell the business as a going concern, thereby protecting UK jobs. After being wined/dined the deal was struck and signed whilst they were there. End result, once the small print was re-read = the name/brand (including all of the names Triumph, Austin, MG, Rover etc) had been sold for peanuts, whilst the factory ended up being demolished and 95% of the workforce laid off. IMO, as we've sold / disposed of most of our manufacturing capabilities, we're now so dependent on the crap imports, that they can now afford to let the $ fall in value. The only reason why the BRICS nations would need a strong £ / Euro/$, at this time, is to exchange their paper reserves for valued assets they require themselves, or to further their expansion. Case in point, the Chinese, in exchange for offering to possibly help Euro leaders, now want the import tariffs on chinese steel dropped. As such IMO, it is the BRICS nations who will decide on which currency rises or falls, solely dependent on the favors/benefits they receive. Are they likely therefore, to want to put all of their eggs in one basket (ie the $), and buy up land in the USA, when the single country could later turn round and tell them to 'f' off. Or are they more likely to play both sides by keeping the equilibrium, in order to buy the transferable resources in $'s (ie PM's) of the single isolated nation, whilst simultaneously investing in the land resources of multi border nations? IMO they need both to survive at the moment.

If the Euro collapses, due to its debts, and inability to print its way out, then what? Sure, due to the Euro basket weighting, the USDx could go up, but why? If the Euro collapses, then the $ goes also, due to the debts of the USa, and the consequential loss of confidence in all western fiat.

In view of the above, and my continued belief that smoke & mirrors is always TPTB primary weapon, IMO there's only one way to go, and that's physical. Times are changing and the latest smack down only reinforces this opinion, particularly in view of Turd latest open interest data post & What Really Happened This Week in Gold and Silver This Week above (as posted by 99th monkey yesterday, so hat tip for that).

The paper trading is about to get even more volatile IMO, with a conflict outbreak providing the justifiable MOPE cover for a dramatic price increase in Silver shortly. Scary as hell, I hope it's all resolved peacefully, and I would gladly give up my stack to prevent a war / loss of life, Until then, my only option is to keep buying the real stuff, keep telling others to do so, and hope we can get back to reality peacefully. 

DragonFly's picture

Chinese 100 year Plans

I'm no expert on the Chinese but I don't buy this 100 year plan crap. If you mean they do nothing for 100 years then I might agree. I think they are a collective autocracy that CANT plan in the short term because it requires too much consensus. 

All they do in the short term is copy-cat what is already happening.  An inability to plan in the short term does not make them long term planners. Reminds me of a saying in software engineering: "its not a bug, its a feature"

If I'm wrong  their history should have previous 100 year plans which they have executed.  Can anyone point them out to me? An no taking 100 years to build a wall is not a plan, but poor execution.

Be Prepared's picture

Finviz's Relative Strength Index....

The Market is a World full of Bubbles.....

Be Prepared's picture

Repercussions if CDS Hedging Fails?

What Are Repercussions If CDS Hedging Fails?

 
 
 
The EU arranged Greek bailout proceeds apace, as everyone else awaits for the official default date (Greece has already defaulted in my book, but I am in the minority). Hedged sovereign debt investors must feel like they are waiting for their wealthy grandfather to die so they can get to the reading of the will.

I have no dog in this fight, other than than an interest in seeing derivatives, especially Credit Default Swaps, appropriately regulated as insurance products.

But the process for determining a payout for CDS is fascinating. The people officially determining defaults are not objective Judges or impartial observers; rather, a group of self-appointed traders, conflicted, biased, non transparent participants — with positions affected by their own decision –  determine what a Greek default is and isn’t.

Again, I wonder loud: Why would one want to own something that has a payout determination made by this group of fucktards objective, ethical, unbiased committee members?

All of which raises a few issues in my mind: I do not know the answers to these questions, but they sure are intriguing:

1) Why would anyone ever buy a CDS? Do they have true intrinsic value, will they pay off like a futures contract or option? Or, must you pursue their payout via some combination of lobbying, litigation and persuasion?

2) If the answer to the prior question is “No to CDS,” then does this mean that sovereign debtcannot be hedged?

3) If that is the case, why would anyone buy any sovereign debt other than the very strongest nations? Outside of the US, China, Germany, and perhaps Switzerland, why would anyone purchase any other Sovereign debt? What do questions about hedging mean for debt issuance?

4) Which raises yet another question: If middling sovereign debt is downgraded by buyers, will these countries be forced to break out the printing presses? Might that add further pressure for the softening of the EU zone? the weaker countries be forced out of the EU zone?

5) Are we then going to see Drachmas, Lire and other forgotten currencies?

6) What does this mean for hyperinflation?

7) Lastly, what sort of a frenzy will the Gold Bugs be whipped up into?  Will they simply turn their enthusiasm into a yellow metal jihad? Are we going to see adverts in the WSJ and FT urging us to Buy Motherfucking Gold?

<Rest of the Article>

Larry's picture

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

First off, thanks Ned for the always brilliant resourcefulness, analysis and helpful sharing of these important events. Thanks Turd for your tireless contributions and unique vision. You guys have the right stuff. 

Now, PAGE TWO, as Paul Harvey might say:

Having read the blog comments, I'd join those that are looking at this situation with a raised eyebrow. I've seen words like "ecstatic" used to express emotions around the news of the 'new' Chinese silver exchange. The opaque PAGE dealings and curious (evident) outcome is not so surprising as it is disturbing. The EE crept in and entangled PAGE. Whatever actually happened behind closed doors smells. Again, in this world we live in... not surprising.

Now, as that oriental rug of PAGE has been ripped out from under us we have a new exchange. OK, great. Silver this time. OK, great. Chinese businessmen doing this in secret? Really? Are there any sizeable monetary or currency secrets that escape the prying eye of Sauron?

For myself and all of the good denizens here and anyone trying to build their financial lifeboat with pm's I will certainly be hopeful (not at all confident) that the new exchange does bring about a change in the system with "powerful allies who are intent upon making obsolete the existing model and will soon put forth a new structure, one that finally allows for true price discovery in the precious metals" as Turd states. 

But even though I hold out hope for a game-changer in how the pm's are bought and sold and how they are allowed to find true value in an open, free market, and hope for an eventual return to real, Constitutional money, I can't help but remember the stranglehold of the wicked ones and the evil system that covers the earth.

We've seen our entire world economy eaten by the ravenous beast. The Evil Empire Tiger never sleeps. Yet, as we venture outside of our safe places to cheer the (currently hidden) Chinese Dragon as it takes on the Fed-led Cartel Tiger, we best always remember that they are both, by nature, beasts that are going to try and eat us when they are through competing for territory.

Unfortunately, there is no hope that they will eat each other. Seems they have a symbiotic relationship. 

bigPbna's picture

Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov't Is Not Stimulus

First time poster. Stacking since 5/2011. Thanks Turd, and everyone for my continued awakening! Sharing an old video I found educational: Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov't Is Not Stimulus Published on Dec 15, 2008 by afq2007 Based on a theory known as Keynesianism, politicians are resuscitating the notion that more government spending can stimulate an economy. This mini-documentary produced by the Center for Freedom and Prosperity Foundation examines both theory and evidence and finds that allowing politicians to spend more money is not a recipe for better economic performance.

Bobbejaan's picture

@Dmanson & Tabberto .... RE:- New Exchange

An excellent & intriguing analysis, for which I thank you both kindly.

I personally suspect that Andy & Ned may have to do some serious "ducking & diving" in order to avoid "getting nobbled prior to the race-start" by the cartel, and I certainly hope that Ned, Andy, & their associates take suitable precautions ... BUT Kudos to them and I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams.

Be Prepared's picture

Housing Report..... February 2012

RealtyTrak reports that sales of homes that were in “some stage of foreclosure or bank owned” accounted for 24% of all U.S. residential sales during Q4 2011. This is an increase from 20% in Q3, but down from 26% of all sales in Q4 2010.

Total foreclosure-related sales in 2011 were 907,138 — down 2% from 2010. The average sales price of homes in foreclosure or bank owned was $164,944 in Q4, down 5% from Q4 2010.

The average price of a foreclosure-related sale was 29% below the average price of a non-foreclosure sale in Q4. That “foreclosure discount” is smaller than Q3 (34%) and down from 35% foreclosure discount the prior year.

Home builder confidence in the market for new single-family homes increased for the fifth consecutive month in February, rising from 25 to 29 on the NAHB/Wells Fargo Housing Market Index (HMI) released today. It is the highest level the index has reached in more than four years.
...
“This is the longest period of sustained improvement we have seen in the HMI since 2007, which is encouraging,” said NAHB Chief Economist David Crowe. “However, it is important to remember that the HMI is still very low, and several factors continue to constrain the market. Foreclosures are still competing with new homesales, and many builders are seeing appraisals come in at less than the cost of construction. Additionally, prospective home buyers are finding it difficult to qualify for a mortgage.”
...
Each of the HMI’s three components also improved for a fifth consecutive month in February. The component measuring traffic of prospective buyers rose from 21 to 22, and the component measuring salesmag-glass_10x10.gif expectations for the next six months increased from 29 to 34. The component measuring current sales rose from 25 to 30.

Month-to-month gains in several housing statistics – new and existing home sales, starts, and homebuilder confidence – has created in financial markets a sense of optimism about a housing recovery. Comments made by key players during quarterly earnings conference calls suggests such optimism is likely premature. According to Beazer Homes CEO Allan Merrill, consumers remain fearful that home prices may fall further, are worried about about the overall direction of the economy and, “with some buyers, [concerned] about the impact of potential hanges in national housing policies.”

kliguy38's picture

Troy 79

Your observations indicate you have a cynicism regarding the ability of transparency to ever be achieved in these markets......rest assured the PTB have nothing but the best intentions for these markets and will make every effort to establish a fair trading platform for you AND all turdites that want to become wealthy in the paper trade of precious metals. In fact we are bringing even more opportunities through our ETFs and ETNs with our usual optionality opportunities. So do not disparage the efforts we are trying to make to enhance trading for these metals..... We are even going to bring in a quintuple ETF soon in both gold AND silver for all of you.........stay tuned.....this game is only getting started for you.

Pining 4 the Fjords's picture

Fighting the good fight

Guys like Ned, Andrew and Turd are fighting the good fight- each doing what they can to strike a blow against the status-quo corruption of the markets and the outright theft of value that goes on every day.  And it must be quite difficult because in a David v Goliath cage match, there are times when it just doesn't go well for old David.  The markets move against you because criminals dump paper with no thought of optimal market execution, and suddenly every two-bit armchair trader is Monday-morning quarterbacking your previous posts.  Or, as with Ned and Andrew, pressure is quietly brought to bear and a plan you thought was a done-deal, and a potential game-changer, suddenly grinds to a halt.  It has got to be frustrating.

But a whole bunch of people - those with their eyes open anyway - understand what you are doing and appreciate it tremendously.  Thank you gentlemen!  Someday, when PMs are trading at fair market value and staggering fortunes have been made, they are going to make a movie out of all this...

recaptureamerica's picture

THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE

THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY! reader decides who is who.

Larry's picture

Allocated

Pining... that is outstanding!

Silverado meets OK Corral meets Unforgiven, where the good guys wear the black and yellow hats against the White Shoe Boys. :)

ClinkinKY's picture

@ bigPbna--Keynesian Economics Is Wrong: Bigger Gov't Is ...

You know it, I know it and most clear thinking people know it. Now if we could just convince the liberals. Perhaps Mr. Hayek has something to addwink

Turd Ferguson's picture

PINING!!!!

MODERATOR

You've outdone yourself!!! I'm confident that Ned and Andy will agree!
Btw, pls email me your address. I owe you a hat for the contest.

¤'s picture

Pining

How freakin' cool is that?  Wow! yesyes

treefrog's picture

pining,

great work,   ...but...

may i request an updated version of the "allocated" poster.  i think turd would look better with an ak-47.

Ned Braden's picture

PINING

Just Priceless ! Destined 2 B a classic

R man J's picture

Provide some bullets

Time for me to purchase a monthly subscription to TF Metals.  I trust that the fiat will be converted to silver bullets at the new EXCHANGE! 

With much appreciation!

Fred Hayek's picture

@troy

Leaving aside the dumb frat boy talking to other dumb frat boys tone of your introductory paragraph, you raise some points that you don't seem to even try to seriously answer.  I'll give it a shot.
You say, 
Are you people kidding me!? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. You're going to believe that mysterious wealthy Asians are secretly plotting a NEW nameless exchange? And they're going to only tell NN-L and Andew Mcguire all about?
I doubt that they are the only people the backers of the new exchange have told.  One imagines that many many people have to be involved in order to get such an enterprise off the ground.  N N-L and Andrew McGuire are likely the only ones with any notoriety at all in western media circles.  Therefor, it's not all that surprising that they're the only ones we hear mentioning it.
 
You continue,
Wait, I thought part of the problem was that THEY were part of the problem bringing PAGE to light but they're in on the new exchange too?
This betrays either a refusal or inability to listen.  Both Ned and Andrew McGuire say that there were two apparent problems.  One was that a portion of the backers were apparently controlled to some degree by western influences and insisted on devising a completely new computer system backing for the exchange rather than simply adapting existing systems and that this caused big delays at the same time as there were difficulties with the chinese government related to the trading of gold rather than silver.  Nowhere in either Ned's interview or McGuire's is there anything implied or from which you might infer that they were the problem.  Now, of course, one typically doesn't see oneself as the problem but your claim seems to be completely fabricated.  If you could cite a portion of either interview to corroborate your claim, e.g. 17 minutes and 42 seconds into McGuire's interview, I'd certainly  accept what you say.  I don't see anything to back this arbitrary claim at this point.
 
You then say,
Do you not think IF there were a new exchange opening and those two Brits knew about it JP Morgan and ALL TPTB would know about it too?  The whole "we can't tell you the name of the exchange" is B.S. If they can't tell you the name of the exchange, what size of contracts are going to be sold or where the offices are located or who owns the exchange or who is going to offer the contracts or where you can buy contracts or where the physical is going to be stored or who is going to audit the storage - IT"S ANOTHER FREAKING SHAM!!
There's a curiously lacking logic to this part as well.  Any number of new products are spoken of before their introduction but not given names nor is the public told addresses etc.  .  The entire Apple line of products fits such a description as do untold others.  Giving some hint of a new service or product but no more information than that is hardly a new paradigm.  In fact, it's extremely common.  To imply that it necessarily means this is somehow  a sham is either a refusal to ponder how many parallels there are or an inability to do so.  But more than that, a reasonably intelligent person might take the next step and ask just how anyone is making a single cent or farthing from this supposed scam.  Please enlighten all of us how ill gotten renumeration is supposed to result from this.  Are they able to monetize feelings of optimism in some of the folks having interest in precious metals?  If so, how? 
 
You continue,
Also, according to everbody's 2 new favorite Brits, it's privately owned! Does this not send up your red flag too? It's privately owned/controlled so it can be bought and influenced. Nobody is willing to fall on the silver sword for you.
I've got news for you, pal.  Things that are government owned are also effectively bought and influenced, too.   You're essentially pointing to one class of fish and shouting, "Look!  This one swims in water!"  Guess what?  So do all the others.  Corruption is a worry in any setting, public or private.  Think of all the government agencies who are supposed to regulate JP Morgan.  And yet, for Jamie Dimon to much worry about their shutting him down would be the equivalent of you or I laying awake nights fretting about being struck by a chunk of anti-matter.   Your statement is meaningless for having ignored the obvious full context of the situation.  Private ownership cannot be compared only to one's perfect imaginings but has to be compared to actual publicly owned situations.
 
You go on,

King world news and Turd made me sick with their "interviews". It was a huge stroke job giving these guys yet another huge audience to burn. I'll believe this new unnamed exchange is going to change the silver price discovery when I see it for myself. Until then, everybody should be asking the tough questions and be skeptical.

If your little heart cannot take another disappointment, then fine, don't bother thinking about it.  Others may wish to.  If I can keep rooting for the Red Sox after 1978, 1986 and 2003, I think I can handle a different exchange for silver (in which I'm much more interested) opening a bare month or two later than the PAGE was expected to.  But, yes, a degree of skepticism is perfectly justified given that the PAGE did not come to fruition.  

You conclude,

Use your brains people....Ned and Andrew make money in this paper silver game. The point is TPTB will NEVER let a true 1:1 exchange of respectable size compete with the COMEX and the LBMA, EVER. There will never be a true price discovery until demand finally outstrips supply, then there's no more hiding. But until then, they'll control the price of silver with unlimited free money from the FED, end of story. Wake up from your wet dreams of wealthy Asians...

I'm not sure what to make of a breathless accusation that Ned and Andrew have . . jobs . . in the very industry about which they speak and they receive . . compensation!  They get paid!  Paid, people!  Stop the presses!  Had you thought this through just a little further, you might realize that being two of the most public advocates for overturning the existing system is hardly likely to be the stepping stone to wealth and influence.  Andrew McGuire got hit by a car shortly after he exposed what a sham the Comex is, for god's sake.  Do you think CNBC or mainstream media are lining up to give Ned and Andrew guest shots?  They make money.  So what?  Please explain how you believe they make more money by saying things to the folks here and at KWN?  And if making any money in precious metals trading while simultaneously pushing for these markets to be fixed is somehow inherently corrupting, then what vile things you must think of Turd, too.  

As to the main contention of your paragraph, well, obviously the powers that be in the west don't want an honest precious metals market but they don't control the entire world.  Some other places might want to establish themselves as the real market for investment in the 21st century.  

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