Guest Post: Bill Murphy Adds To Turd's CoT Analysis

Earlier today, Bill asked if he could share my "Speechless Turd" post with his readers. In return, he graciously offered all of us this access to his latest metals market analysis. 

So, here you go. Many thanks to Bill for his insights and his kind words.

MIDAS SPECIAL – Speechless Turd, Something Is Very Wrong, What Could Be Up!

Turd Ferguson, of the TF Metals Report, does superb work and commentary on the precious metals markets. His latest analysis on Friday’s Commitment of Traders Report caught my attention for a number of reasons, in addition to it being so well done. 

TF's effort and analysis is well worth highlighting for a number of reasons…

*First the backdrop. The last QE announcement by the Fed in mid-September of last year was an impetus for stock and precious metals markets to move higher. The DOW did just that, dinking up day after day after day. But what has happened to gold and silver is a completely different story.

The prices of gold and silver did bump up very briefly, into the first week into October. But since the precious metals live in a Black is White and White is Blackworld, that was to be it. The Gold Cartel’s stepped-up war on gold and silver was about to begin … with the price of gold around $1793 and silver at $35 and change.

An effort to suppress the prices of each would commence in earnest on a daily basis like I had never seen before. Rarely has a day done gone by in all this time that The Gold Cartel could not be spotted implementing at least one of their repetitive selling tactics.

An entire diatribe could be written on why it was done, but simplistically put, the Fed/US is in a NO SOLUTIONS environment for the financial/economic predicament it has evolved into. The only way out, as they saw it, was to print money, etc. The best way to defuse the longer term ramifications of this action was to SHOOT THE MESSENGER, to disfunctionalize the barometer of US/world financial market health, that being the price of gold. Sister market silver was included because of its relationship to gold … a price dichotomy between the two could not be tolerated.

The escalated war on gold and silver was underway. But this time, The Gold Cartel included other countries, other bullion banks, various hedge funds, etc. It led to the unprecedented attacks on them on April 12 and April 15, as you know all too well. Since then, gold has made some effort to get into recovery mode, while silver has languished, flopping its way into the bottom end of its trading range following the historic raid on gold.

*What Turd’s work shows is that The Gold Cartel’s constant selling has had the effect of spec longs exiting, replacing them by the commercial crowd. The entire dynamic most of the way up of spec longs taking on the commercials has been in a process of reversing, especially since the financial market terrorist attacks of mid-April.

TF on the latest COT numbers which speak for themselves:

"The Bullion Banks have now reduced their net liability in gold by over 75% and, in silver, by over 83%...all since the game-changing announcement of QE8 last September."

This is an extraordinary development over a period of time and is setting up historic moves higher in the prices of gold and silver, which never should have been down at these artificially low levels in the first place. However, there are some caveats which need to be dealt with in the very short term…

-As noted in Friday’s commentary, the Gold Cartel was as visible on Friday as they were 8 months ago. The price plunges on Friday were NOT due to increased speculative selling, at least IMO. We know this because of the way gold and silver played out, in a similar manner as they have done for these debilitating 8 months. Gold failed miserably after breaking out of a 9 time top. Silver, after acting horribly on Thursday, then goes into new low closing territory for the entire move. If this were specs, we wouldn’t see the same trading patterns as we have witnessed all the way down.

-The numbers presented by the CFTC can’t be totally off, but something does not seem right to me. The bottom line is my take is that The Gold Cartel is using offshore, numbered accounts to make them look like spec accounts … in order to disguise what they are still doing and to create a much more bullish picture technically than is really the case ... to suck in even more unsuspectings that a bottom is in.

We know JP Morgan uses offshore accounts. Silver is trading so terribly, it tells me they are using them to further their agenda to bury the price so much that the stubborn longs finally capitulate. As demonstrated, while the gold open interest has collapsed in stunning fashion, the silver open interest is not far from multi-year highs. This is more than highly unusual and suggests something is not right with the visible gold/silver open interest pictures, as portrayed by the COT report.

Nothing that has happened to gold and silver the past many months has been normal. They have been caught up in a scorched earth Gold Cartel devastation policy. It is for ALL THE MARBLES, which is why The Gold Cartel recruited so many allies to assist them in their mission. No ruthless price suppression tactic would be left in the lurch. That gold gave up all of its breakout gains of Thursday above $1400, and then some, is a perfect example what the sordid cartel forces are prepared to do. They made this known to their allies in advance by crushing silver below key $23 the day before.

Their efforts are as well thought out as they are sinister. We are all aware of the hundreds of tonnes of outflows from the ETFs on the way down. Tonnage accumulated all the way up is being disgorged, facilitating other supply used by The Gold Cartel to meet stellar demand for physical. Much of the accumulation in the ETFs were by big league money managers in search of profit and performance for their investors. All was hunky dory with the price of gold going up every year … with gold yielding returns far higher than fixed income investments.

But suddenly all that changed with the gold/silver price collapses, accompanied by the daily relentless move higher of the US stock market. The Gold Cartel knew that money managers would be compelled to dump gold/silver ETF holdings because of their affect on relative performance. IMO, it was one of their reasons for the financial market terrorist attacks. Those money managers who were holding on just wouldn’t be able to take it anymore … and many have not. This all goes back to how comprehensive this vast and devious market manipulation scheme really is.

*So, back to what this may be all about, and it is just a maybe. A colleague of mine and I have gone back and forth for months about what The Gold Cartel’s end game plan is. Much of that has been covered numerous times in this commentary. But, there could be one more thing, which would be the blockbuster of blockbusters if the case.

There is a great deal of talk, as per Turd’s efforts, among others, about the commercials getting longer and longer relative to their normal short positions. There is also talk of The Gold Cartel actually getting long, or at least exiting their positions, before the historic move up in the precious metals begins in earnest. This is what the COT numbers have appeared to tell us over the past many weeks.

But, as already covered, the gold/silver price action doesn’t correlate to the supposed makeup of the open interest numbers. The Gold Cartel appears to be as aggressive as ever. Gold and silver would not be trading in a similar manner as they have since the beginning of October if their modus operandi had changed yet. There is one possibility of what could be going on which would shake the financial world. A thought…

Many in the GATA camp have long talked about an overnight revaluation of the price of gold. Pick a number: $3,000, $5,000+, etc. The reasons for such are for another commentary, but it is a constant theme in our camp. One day we will wake up on a Monday morning to find out the US and other western countries have reset the price.

We know the central banks have nowhere near the central gold they say they have, much of it being leased out. Over the last decade GATA has claimed, based on the input we have received over the years, they have less than half the gold they say they say, and that would be the best case. This is one reason central banks are so secretive about their real gold dealings … the US being a perfect example.

We know how the bullion banks/Gold Cartel have been so short over the years. If a decision was made to revalue the price of gold to that degree, a plan would first need to be implemented so they could cover as many shorts as possible on the Comex and in other venues. It would have to be one like never seen before … both vicious and long-lasting. It would also involve disgorging physical gold and silver positions from the ETFs, badly needed to cover physical precious metals short positions.

Perhaps one of the most misunderstood notions among uninformed precious metals reporters, and the likes of a clueless Doug Casey, is their claim The Gold Cartel has done a lousy job of suppressing the price of gold all these years as per the 12 year price advances. When I explain to reporters how much money they have made by fleecing spec longs over the years with raids like the last one, they go blank. Think how much money JP Morgan has made with their raids on silver in 2008 and in the past year alone, much less mini spank jobs in between and all the way up.

There is only ONE way the price of gold can be revalued without the bullion banks/Gold Cartel getting destroyed, and that is to do it with the price devastated and many of the bullion bank’s shorts covered on the way down, replaced by unsuspecting spec shorts. As it is now, the specs will cover their shorts and go long, as they always do, once the technicals turn positive, moving averages turn, etc. Those longs will need to have corresponding shorts in the futures market. This means the same drill on the way up again as The Gold Cartel does what they do and slows price advances down. To stop a price explosion down the road they will be forced to go back as short as they ever were.

And that will be the case, UNLESS, there is an overnight price reevaluation. In that case, instead of shorting gold all the way up, they would suddenly only need to sell gold at those $3,000 to $5,000 numbers, or not at all. It would be the perfect exit plan to end their nefarious activities over the last number of decades. Mission accomplished.

It would also accomplish something else. An overnight price of that magnitude would bring owners of gold (silver too, as who knows what that price would soar to) out of the woodwork, including me. Gold and silver would flood the marketplace at those dramatically higher prices. This would allow the physical gold and silver shorts to replenish/reconcile the positions on their books. Yes, those losses from selling low and buying high would be considerable, but only a drop in the bucket compared to money made/saved in other financial market arenas … even compared to the costs of saving the western financial market system as a whole.

Their physical market lease losses could also be minimized by buying way out of the money calls on the Comex or on the Over the Counter Market. They could be purchased with very little impact on the futures price because of their distance … i.e., there would be very little delta hedge buying of futures by the writers of the calls.

Should this occur, the effect on the Comex would be devastating. The number of unsecured deficits would blow the exchange out of the water. How ironic it would be that such a dramatic move would cause a never expected Force Majeure … the failure of spec shorts to send sudden losses to the Comex to meet their unsecured, massive overnight money losses. It is doubtful the Comex could survive such an event. Maybe that would be just fine with The Gold Cartel, as they move on.

Whether this sort of clandestine operation is in play or not, we are in the process of moving to one of three monumental money making opportunities of all time. They are all WIN WIN…

  1. We are close to the time of a short covering squeeze, and the end of the unending Gold Cartel bombings initiated in early October.
  2. As is my thinking, we have more to endure before the price moves of gold and silver really kicks in.
  3. This blatant, never-ending assault on gold and silver actually is leading to an overnight night reevaluation in the months ahead.

They are the three in play, IMO. All of them dictate staying with physical market gold and silver positions … and building gold/silver share positions in your firms of choice.

Yes, investing in them, in many cases, has been a disaster for years now. But, what goes around, comes around. In all of the above cases the odds, at this point, of them taking off as per what occurred in the internet mania at the end of the 1990’s, is on the increase, with the risk/reward situation way more than favorable.

To conclude, watching how the gold/silver shares trade in the weeks and months ahead is likely to take on increasing importance. They led the way down and are likely to give us an indication of the major turn in the gold and silver markets. In any of the above scenarios, we need more action in the PM Shares like we saw on Friday, in which they held up very well considering what the US stock market and gold/silver markets did … and that is after a couple of solid up days.

In all of these scenarios The Gold Cartel, and allies, will want to cover their shorts in the share market ahead of any of the above retreat scenarios. Can you imagine what the shares would do on an overnight basis on a revaluation? Sweet dreams on that thought!

===================================

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231 Comments

Zoltan's picture

First?

First.  Yeah Baby.

Z
 

Quisp's picture

OMG First! Daggummit!

Thanks Turd for all you do!    I'll settle for 2nd.

Mad5Hatter's picture

3rd

for a turder top 10. And, coincidentally, fisnished integrating notes for 3rd edition of the attack plan, considered a master piece by only one, its author, of course, but not by others, but thinking it will not be seriously considered, just to novel approach for conventional thinkers, different approaches are a problem to be accepted by conventional thinkings. So it offered, but acceptance is not my call. I still offer a pod cast or a lecture any time, public or private, anytime.

Glad to see Bill stopped by. Hows the fort doing? Just asking.

Has COT flipped? Just curious.

So the reset offer all those with bullion in hand to succeed eventually in time. And the poor smuchs without get zero in an economic basket case fall out, or inflation on fixed income can make it, in the greatest transfer of wealth. Is that a noble thought. Just Asking. 

Turd Ferguson's picture

still confused

MODERATOR

Hows the fort doing? Just asking.

Has COT flipped? Just curious.

???

Response to: 3rd
The Watchman's picture

@Mad5 Speak More CLEARLY-If You Want To Be Taken Seriously

I think we all lose our muchness from time to time

Mad5Hatter's picture

You Bet

Bill is always great with his take on thing. And COT data provides many clues, and am glad that Trud and Bill provide us with their take, and that is a great data point to have, a valued input.

I have listen to many complain about the naked shorts for many years, and it seems that it wont stop.

I am hoping for a COT flip as the signal that things have changed for destroying the FRN, because it is believed that TPTB use taxes and paper money to control, and maintain a lock on power. So, in my estimation, the FRN is the enemy. I see the JP and others out trying to make a buck, even though if feeds the maintenance of the FRN, so the manipulators, out for a buck, are not the friend of the people. There is a possibily of private hands buying bullion to over run them, but it seems that has played out long enough. And so, trapped are the people in the control of totalitarians, and its getting worst, not better, as more and more laws are constructed, as the IRS and FRN means pervade. It seems as though its an endless struggle, and keeping an eye out on the COT give clues. 

After so long eye balling, and believe in my heart that a plan has finally been devised to rock the manipulators and shut them down, and let price discovery come back, but feel helpless and impatience. So, that its. As long as the FED can funnel FRN into the manipulators, they can go naked and control. And so the next step is, what if there is no physical, no more to push the price down, they still can control. I was thinking today about how to lock down the manipulator, so they are given no wiggle room in avoiding an injunction, and thought of passing money to 3rd parties, which then come in as supposed clients, and that, I end up where I was years ago, I have to go back to 3 years ago about, proposing the ending of naked shorts in the bullion space, physical or forwards only, because bullion and the FRN are money, but not other commodities. And it seems like creative games can be created, unless they are enjoined, even after they are supposedly over run. I am afraid that first watching the fort, and then the COT, and then demands, that that will not be the end of it, that it could go on as long as they can print, which they can, thinking basically the manipulators have to be shut down, at least in my life time. The coasts, East and West are locked up by money interests, sharks, greedster, and banksters. Only a strike now in a gun toting state offers the people any chance of shutting down these crimes and saving what is left of the country, and that is what is being proposed, but realize it is a novel approach, so stalemate and frustration is what is felt, while a last chance to really do something may be slipping away.

They have many looking at COT reports, and that is good information, but I am not so sure that even with supply all gone, that demand prices will be allowed to go up and to have a reset. So, I sit, with an attack plan. I thought it through.

Bill and Turd offer valuable insight to COT analysis, and today I questioned myself if another decade of waiting is in the cards for a COT flip, and if it happens, is anything really changed by it, can they maintain price controls. Now many think it will enter a state of absolute totalitarian control, then why bother now with good COT data, if they control all any way? If it will play out in the totalitarian end game, the COT data, while providing a market data point now, dont solve the political questions.

So, the end of all this is that COT by bill and turd are value indicators of the state of affairs in term of market action. But if the paper printers can print in perpetuity, and if totalitarianism is the projected outcome, we need to strike, strike now, and strike hard and fast. And we at least have a plan, that no one seems interested in, except one. 

How is the fort doing, I dont know, but believe its a national secret, but wondering if there any new delevopments on front. We went through GS lovering position, and JP took over. We went through EU CB selling and then switching to buying, and what, so they reloaded? Now Europe of burning, until starvation takes overs, and the people return to work. When the price got bombed and the mine disaster taking out supply, the COT did not flip, and that was major clue. It did not happen, as it aught to. So, its not COT. Its not the WGA. Its not the supply. Its not the Fort. Its Not the EU burning. Its political, and there are the national RNC and DNC controlling bodies, and its seems that is where the focus should be. And in the USA, there are 3 branches, all three of which are locked up on the coasts, but there is a middle section holding the line, having 1 branch not looking to elections, and in that1 branch in that one area, there maybe an opportunity to strike the EE.

The propose plan can be replicated by anyone, it not really difficult, just novel. But, the consequence of the plan and propose action discredits paper, and the central bank paper pushers start falling, one by one, and hence, the objective is not really the manipulator, per se, but the follow on consequences, and that is FREEDOM from the paper pushers, and that means, FREEDOM from the EE. The manipulator in the case proposed is simply the weak commercial link, where to strike, to start the dominoes falling one by one.

Karankawa's picture

Great post Turnd, thank you.

for anybody that was on the fence about getting small in the IBS (International Banking System), I suggest you get ready and start posting pics of your garden.  The NWO HATES those pics, but can't do a thing TODAY to stop them.

Thanks again Turd

Adolf_Hitler's picture

On Santa

Santa claims that gold and silver will go up again next Tuesday (Jun 4th). Bo Polny says gold and silver will surge on Jun 5th. I bet a cheesecake that gold and silver will be pummelled next Tuesday and Wednesday...angry

Chord's picture

9

The Ninth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

What a great Guest Post, TF !     Thank you!

I will print this, and read it several times trying to grok it.

Katie Rose's picture

I'm thinking about...

sinkholes.....

I'm thinking about how wonderful it would be if the earth suddenly opened up and swallowed Jamie and Blythe and the CFTC and the SEC ...

A girl can dream....

edit: It is definitely time for bed. wink

The Watchman's picture

Check The Date-

john_swinton_lying_msm_intellectual_pros

wildstylechef's picture

DCOT Charts

Occasnltrvlr's picture

An Additional, OT Post...

...possibly worth consideration.

I keep a "tube" of OPM Ag rounds in my desk, to "fondle".  (There's something very "real" about materiel materials, is there not?)

But, I've found, as I feel them in my hands, and look at them, they tell me about what I'm willing to spend my hard-earned fiat dollars upon.

"That dinner and drinks out?  It's this many of us."  "That regular expenditure for telephony, or 'connectedness'?  It's this may of us."  "That hotel-room upgrade, or fancier hotel night?  It's this many of us."

What I'm saying is, weighing my spending against the expenditure of the PM's in my hand has made me reconsider the value of what I choose to spend currency on, and has instilled additional budgetary discipline.

(Maybe, the whole point is that PM's are still significantly undervalued as compared to the greenback.)

Hammer's picture

Brits need to watch this

Brits need to watch this

¤'s picture

Bill states...

2. As is my thinking, we have more to endure before the price moves of gold and silver really kicks in.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I totally agree...we haven't seen anything yet....and we've already seen a lot.

I think we'll see a short lived sub $20 silver and approx. $1200 in gold before anything drastic happens going the other way.

I don't know what the impetus or event will be that causes the turnaround to happen but my guess is that it has something to do with the CFTC and SEC redefining or designating GLD's holdings as a "commodity pool" or in SLV's case...an "Investment Company".... thus allowing those funds to legally close by enacting an obscure 1936 CFTC Commodities Exchange Act / CEA with the physical PM/Gold reverting to the custodians.

(see "Termination Events" > GLD Prospectus  http://www.spdrgoldshares.com/media/GLD/file/SPDRGoldTrustProspectus2012.pdf )

In SLV's case it'll be the following under their definition of a "Termination Event" in their prospectus regarding the 1940  SEC Investment Company Act....

( the SEC determines that the trust is an investment company under the Investment Company Act of 1940, as amended, and the trustee has actual knowledge of that determination; )

http://quote.morningstar.com/fund-filing/Prospectus/2013/3/14/t.aspx?t=SLV&ft=S-3ASR&d=215bc7d9213dc1a268b13f2e343edcec

 I also think at some point thereafter, due to GLD/SLV being closed, that the big shorts we mention, who use those highly leveraged ETF's to accomplish much of their shorting, will be relieved of or be able to cover/extinguish their positions in that unique market event by using those obscure CFTC/SEC Acts.

If a short selling ban takes place during that time period the resulting "long only" buying could provide the rocket fuel to propel the PM's into unknown territory instead of a overnight Govt. declared price situation. I think Govt. mandated action will come after the initial  market turmoil I describe above when it becomes obvious to all market participants that gold first and foremost (and silver) are a relevant monetary instrument even though decades of CB effort and secretive market intervention have gone into denying them as such.

In what will be a historic market event it's a guessing game and the above is just that....my guess on how the scenario initially plays out. The pressure on the 2 largest and most leveraged gold/silver holdings in the world and the subsequent CFTC/SEC intervention will be the impetus for that dramatic price move.

We haven't seen anything yet....but we will.

The "devil woman" in this case is gold/silver devil

oneagleswings's picture

Question of new silver fan. 

Question of new silver fan.  ASE 2013 coin is 100 % .999 silver???  But a "junk silver dollar"  before 1964 is only 90% silver?  Just asking and know I can probably do internet search,,, but.....

mac's picture

COT

Is the COT painted? Really, I have been shocked by my results following these reports (COT) sometimes.

Anyway, America is bankrupt, the people poor and wars never end (who pays for them, it is printed war money, eh?).

- you know, China is gobbl'n up the US gold sold by banksters and the Fed to keep the dollar looking like the prettiest pig.

You think China, India and all the EM's are scared of the Fed and Bankster manipulations? No way, they "love" it.

China can destroy the USD a couple of weeks, and China can buy every frigg'n oz in the world today.

Japan is terminal to me. Puppets extraordinaire! Insanity is cool in Japan....print yen, destroy purchasing power, and buy US dollars....

Japanese people ever heard of Gold?, you seriously need to wake up.

wouldyoubelieve...'s picture

oneagleswings

yes, ASE's are pure silver never meant for circulation, but sold as bullion, 90% dollars, (last minted in 1935) were meant to circulate in the economy at face value , all dimes, quarters and half dollars minted before 1965 are also 90% silver

Sad-descent's picture

@Oneagles

The same is also true in gold. There is a difference between bullion coins and circulated coins.  The base metals are added to the circulated coins to reduce wear.  You will also see in the collectors series gold coins  that it is a 90% grade.  The premiums paid should reflect the difference in precious metals amounts.

Peoples Front of Judea's picture

david icke

He continuously exposes the truth behind the fascist scum/murderers that run/pollute our planet.

He is now opening up his own tv  and radio station...To bring the message to everyone every day..this is not a Mr Icke ego trip he will not be on it...but he is looking for donations to start 100,000 is needed in 30 days ...so far he has raised 30,000 in 24 hours

There are alot of Turdites on here with some serious cash

Donating a few dollars at this cause will REALLY make that difference we are all on about ..please take a look ..see link

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/84996-the-people-are-stirring-and-the-lion-is-preparing-to-roar

Sorry if this is the wrong thread to post in but it is important to back someone who continuously stick his head above the parapet to help everyone

Silver Alert's picture

Bernanke can't set the price of gold

any more than he can set the yield on treasuries.  He can greatly influence the price/yield of treasuries by buying them all up.  Sure, he may be able to target a certain price range but it will still be set by supply and demand. But that is not control by decree.

What happens if some weekend Bernanke announces gold is now worth $5000/oz?  Where would the LCS's and the cash-for-gold shops get the money to service the miles long lines?  IF they can get it from their dealers, then where do those dealers get it from?  And so on...

Somewhere up the line, the money supply will choke.  Unless, there is either mass liquidations of other assets to fuel the gold buying frenzy (remember, if someone is selling - someone else has to be buying) or Benny has to deploy the helicopters - a la QE printing to buy bonds.  If there is not enough money to buy every last ounce that comes out of the woodwork at $5,000 the price will rapidly drop to some market equilibrium. Plus, you will see negative premiums like you can't imagine.

And will all the other CB's go along?  If they don't, there won't be an ounce of gold/silver for sale ANYWHERE else in the world because it will all be coming over here.  (Imagine throngs of tourists on gold selling junkets.)  Otherwise, where does THAT money for other CB's come from?   Will China play along?  Will OPEC suddenly let oil be worth 25% of what it is now?

If great minds like Bill Murphy say it can happen, then I must be missing something.  What?

RaRaRasputin's picture

This sentence jumped out at me!

' The Gold Cartel is using offshore, numbered accounts to make them look like spec accounts'

Santa said yesterday that the Carribean banking system is in a mess and would be next, particularly the Caymen Islands.  We know that these are tax havens for organisations that don't want the paper trail leading to their door and if those bank accounts are going down then their abilities to use this strategy will be removed.

This would be right up JPM's alley and would this make an issue that they have going on go away?

Mad5Hatter's picture

English

teachers, get out your party hats and horn. I am taking a dump. Next job is to conform the attack plan, all 500 pages worth, woooophiiieeeeeee, to structured english and grammar, so it can be smoothy read by anyone, even turdites. Which should be a snap actually, now that it done, the pressure if off, the security pressure is off, and I got the time, whereas before it had to just out, as my personal notes, sort of with security coding while drafting, producting a very difficult read. Thank God for find and replace, eh? But as long as Nicholson can edit at light speed, being a werewolf, so can I, having been bitten. So give it till end of week, say, next monday ready, to have a polished document, well organized, well written, in proper English, and about 300 pages.

Murphy making a camieo in turdville, reminds of a first love, when GS and WGA were all the rage, but now I got goose pimples all over, made my day, actually, its love, I guess, no other word for it, and his appearance has me just so pumped for job at hand.

I Run Bartertown's picture

oneagleswings

www.coinflation.com

gives melt values for coins.

90% coinage is generally .715 troy oz per $1 face value.

Peace and Morgan dollars had .7734 oz of silver, but unless you stumble into a lucky buy, they have quite a premium over melt...selling right now for $30 or more with a $17 melt value.

edit - just had a funny thought about one 'lucky buy' when I was so happy to get some ASEs and Peace dollars for spot...the wisdom and luck of my purchase was self-evident because, hey - no premium!...at $38 silver! LOL. Luck is a relative thing, I suppose...

Kcap's picture

@mad5hatter

Simple linguistic analysis reveals a grammatical structure in your writing that is akin to a hamster running in his wheel, the wheel super-lubed and whistling as it moves all the while the little screws holding it together are both quite loose and about to tear apart.  I fear for what goes on in your overworked mind.  Seems some down time is in order.  Take a break before you blow a gasket and are not able to function at all.

Kcap

sengfarmer's picture

RaRa

Thank you for the Santa update.

Kcap's picture

@ silver alert

Then who has the power to officially set the Gold price, as figured by someone within the USG, at the Treasury or Fed level?

Kcap

tmosley's picture

Hmm, how do we "know" that

Hmm, how do we "know" that JPM uses numbered offshore accounts to pose as small specs?  I had postulated that the EE complex did this, but had no proof.  If there is proof, I would LOVE to see it.

Mad5Hatter's picture

take

a break, right. But, if anyone would volunteer for editor, after I give it 10 passes, that would be appreciated, confidentiality though.

I need a break,,,,,,,,,,, after four years on the bench. LMAO!!!! Im ready to rock and roll. Thoreau eat your heart out. And it would be special to do it for Bill, a dream come true, before we both ride off into the sunset, so he is designated back up star, if one be needed, as I hear them texasians come with six shooters and are quick on the draw.

¤'s picture

Bernanke....

.....can't set the price or valuation of the US gold holdings. True.

It would take an act by the US Treasury to reset the price of gold just as it did in October 1973 after Nixon closed the "gold window" when they set the US gold reserve price at $42.22 / oz.

Regardless of some of our outlooks on the current US gold reserves (unknowable/unproveable) if the U.S. massively inflated the price of gold some day (see my above post) they could easily back a new and implied GFRN (w/o convertibility) if the belief/trust system is still there by the international community and more importantly at that point in time, it's citizenry.

If China or Russia eventually goes to a convertible gold system then things get dicey....a defacto gold war happens as a result under different pretenses.

I'm guessing that in the 21st century that no country will have a convertible gold system in place like we might desire. Gold redemption however for new GFRN's/ Yuan etc. is another matter. At that point in time gold will be do high in price (and mostly unavailable) few could buy it in any significant amount.

Unless.....gold is one day priced in micro-grams that allow for people to feel like they own it. In that scenario it'll still be an implied ownership and it'll be in the form of a digitized "gold card" or "gold account" that implies you have ownership or rights to a certain amount of gold that's held by regional/ local banks (who'll also serve as mini bullion depositories where redemption of phyz for GFRN fiat or gold and silver credits).

A gold or silver card will take on a whole new meaning at some point. Maybe even a platinum card....hard to say, but that would make sense also.

I don't think gold will be revalued wildly during Bernanke's tenure unless some massive game changing event happens that forces the issue. 

Hey.....you never know. I'm not holding my breath.

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