Fair and Balanced
I stumbled across this video today and thought it could serve as a basis for an interesting discussion.
Note that this presentation was made by a lady named Caroline, who is a self-described "federal government employee" and "member of the American Federation of Government Employees". Also note that, as I type this, it has a total of 80 views. (I hope that she has enabled Adsense as she is about to get a few hits!)
The first seven minutes or so are facts that we can all agree upon. The deficit is there and to cut it would require some significant changes to the federal structure. Then, at around the 7:00 mark, Caroline proposes her remedies. This is the crux of the matter and be sure to hear her out before you respond.
On one side of the argument, the deficit is not sustainable but government is vital, perhaps even too small, and it needs more funding through higher taxes. These extra taxes will close the deficit.
On the other side of the argument, the deficit is not sustainable and government spending needs to be trimmed and restructured. This slowing of government growth and outright reduction in spending will close the deficit.
My questions to you are:
- How do we reconcile these two points of view?
- Is it possible to achieve the level of political cooperation needed to make it happen?
- Can we discuss this in a civil manner here on TFMR? If not, how can we expect the politicians to do any better?
- Bonus question: What is my point in starting this discussion?
TF
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Comments
My Answer
A: Ignore in daily lives as 100% illegitimate and eventually dissolve the District of Columbia Corporation through non-violent revolution of awareness. No need to consider pre-scripted debates from state media companies anymore.
Though I gotta hand it to the script writers, they are capable of concocting some wildly ridiculous distractions for us serfs at the circus. http://teamcoco.com/video/social-network-dogs Notice how Conan frames the issue as the big stories covered by the "real" national news being the latest corporate-funded-USA-trained underwear bomber and the always useful distraction of gay marriage. Then we serfs get our cue to laugh at the local news all talking about dogs getting social networks. Obviously the fact that someone wrote a script for all these stations to introduce fabricated debate at the same time is lost on them, as they wouldn't be laughing at this sad state of affairs otherwise.
@GL - Great Mind... Great Post!
The Constitution..... no one seems to read or reference it anymore... Except Ron Paul and a few people that actually want the Federal Government to follow the "real" law....
JPMorgan
Down 5% in after market. . .somehow that makes me feel a little better.
Fed - Mend it or end it
If anyone has a few hours to kill, here are the hearings of the Financial Services Committee.
The Morgue in trouble
Out of nowehere, JPM announced 40 minutes ago that it would hold an unscheduled 5pm call to coincide with the release of its 10-Q. Rumors were swirling as to why. The reason is as follows:
All of this is coming form the just filed 10-Q. The full link is here.Call dial in: (866) 541-2724 in the U.S. and Canada; (706) 634-7246 for international.
JPM Crashing After It
JPM Crashing After It Convenes Emergency Call To Advise Of "Significant Mark-To-Market" Losses
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/jpm-crashing-after-it-convenes-emergency-c...
Maybe
They eat their own...
May JPM Burn in...
.... well... you know where...
.... but, wait, up in the sky.... it's a bird.... it's a plane... no, it's Super Bernank...
He won't let them FAIL... that's why we have the "TBTF" designation.
Where are you Morgue
5:02 still nobody. Are you Obummer
Where are you Morgue
5:02 still nobody. Are you Obummer
lovely!
It couldnt happen to a more corrupt outfit.. Maybe they will have to cover their shorts in silver and gold now.
Dear Caroline
Under this current system, money IS debt; so the idea of paying it off or having sustained budget surpluses is utterly ridiculous. You cannot formulate a solution to a problem in a system where the system itself IS the problem.
Every profession takes an
Every profession takes an exam for licensing, to practice. except politicians.
I think they should be tested on the Constitution after being voted in and every 2 years a new test be taken. If they pass, fine they stay in, if not, not! And if they fail, well they forfeit their win, and their benefits..
Just my fraction of an oz of Ag.
JPM
Well, if JPM goes down the COMEX goes down and paper silver too.
Am I wrong ?
@ Pining
Great post. Many of us have done the same as yourself. My eyes were first opened in 1990. We were working three different jobs and were making big bucks. Then, INCOME TAX TIME. The money that I stored for months had to be sent to Uncle Sam and my account was empty again. I had my wife quit her job and go part time at a low salary, closed down our private mortgage company, cut back our income and had more time and the same bottom line. I slipped back into the income problem during the boom and had to stop the flow again. Today we live well on 15% of what we used to make.
The biggest problem for many of us is we have worked all of our lives and been producers. It is difficult to pass by business deals that will make us big bucks, however, I QUIT. We are just coasting, planning a Panama cruise and a USA driving tour to the parks.
@ Pining
Welcome, Brother....you too have seen the light!
With all due respect
The woman does not have any grasp of economic theory if she believes that raising taxes won't change behavior of its citizens. Raising taxes will dump the economy right back into recession and revenues will probably be less than what they are collecting now.
She also does not understand that moving forward these entitlements will start growing exponentially as the boomers retire and healthcare costs continue to increase faster than GDP.
In 13 minutes the only thing this woman proved is that she has no understanding of economics (she works the feds surprise) and she has no understanding of the budget and the government liabilities wrapped around it like a millstone.
I could go on and on slicing and dicing her fallacies point by point, but what's the point? In her mind the government is here to protect us and help us. Well, tell that to the people who just got MF'd by MF Global (Yes I got MF'd) and Bernie Madoff; tell that to the small farmers getting shut down by Dept of Agriculture and allow Monsanto to spread their Frankenfood, tell that to those people who died of vioxx, and the countless other drugs being approved by the FDA that have no business being sold because of the risks and where's the EPA to hold BP accountable for their oil spill? Where's the justice and protection? No this government isn't here for us, and I do not want to pay a single dollar more in taxes supporting these agencies that are protecting the corporations at the expense of me and my family.
Morgue
Can't say I am following this however here is an article on the CIO
The CIO portfolio currently includes around $70 billion of securities that are linked to mortgage debt in Europe, Dimon said on Friday. JPMorgan chief financial officer Doug Braunstein said that $175 billion of the portfolio is mortgage-related, with the “vast majority” government-backed or government debt.
http://compliancesearch.com/wallstreetjobreport/achilles-heel-for-jpmorg...
Europe crashing ?
Glad I spent some dry powder
on FAZ last month. I had a funny feeling those lying banksters were up to no good.
Morgue
Lost 2 billion in six weeks.
Says global regions.
Do the math. Spanish realty down 40-50% why only 2 billion?
Re: JPM Crashing After It
Wow! This is big! Let's watch and see how big this contagion is and if this forces the hand of the FED. The slow unravelling might not be as slow as people thought. What else is lurking out there that we've missed? I wonder what tomorrow's blog is going to be about? Turd are you on the horn calling any of those contacts yet?
JPM Significant Market Losses
I guess they're finally marking to market their silver short....
IMO
if no QE soon, debt implosion, deflation, collapse. more QE, a few more months
bought. eventually QE won't work. either way, the end game is deflation, and collapse.
the world will have to return to a gold standard at least initially, because no one will
trust paper money (again). so will the Bernank QE in June? if not, they must have
everything ready. will they let things get dire first? will China beat us to the punch?
once one country returns to sound money, they all will have to. i have to believe
that the governments collectively have a plan.
does anyone wonder who is buying all the "cash for gold" gold? it sure isn't anyone
i know - they all think i'm an idiot. my small town has more "cash for golds" than
bars - and i live in WI. the truth is hiding in plain site. the US gov is buying the gold.
there will be no confiscation at least in the US. we are armed, and we don't trust
the bastards. besides, they are confiscating all the gold by stealth. keep stacking.
i don't have an opinion on what may happen to the miners - they may be taxed to death,
or nationalized. all IMO of course, and i'm considered a fool by many.
Paging Mr. Bernanke... Mr. Bernanke, JPM on line 1
"Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies..."
Deficit Explained
Wow, wow, wow. If my IQ was any less and equal to my turtle's, I'd be on board with everything she has to say and go along with every suggestion. This presentation sounds like a multi-level marketing meeting, but instead of buying makeup, jewelry, or chocolates, you sign up for more government, higher taxes, and less benefits. Hey, sign me up. Because without you guys, Americans would have been too dumb to get along or progress from the 1960's. We'd all still be hitching up our horses and visiting the Ingalls family and sleeping in our one room houses. Forget about hopping on an airplane to visit grandma or eating healthy food, (without the FDA, we would never know that pink-slime was actually good for you, maybe tomorrow we'll find out it actually cures cancer.)
Also, lets look at a family that just can't pay their bills right now. But her account, why it would be silly to cut the cable, how the hell would we know what's going on in the Jersey Shore. We couldn't turn the heat down, I just don't like wearing sweaters and socks in the house. We couldn't grow a veggie garden, it would just take up time weeding and I get dirt under my fingernails. Cooking at home would cost too much for the burner, water to wash dishes, and the cleaning, my goodness not the cleaning. We should just go out to dinner.
Prisons? did she mention prisons? People take so much advantage of the government's subsides, millions and billions are being made by entrepreneurs that work the system.
You how we bring more jobs back to the states, get the government out of the employment process. A small company can't hire people, because it cost to much to get rid of them if they don't produce. It's cheaper to keep them on and get 20% production than to pay the unemployment. This makes me sick.
Pardon the language in the song
but for JPM - only this will do:
Raise Taxes vs Cut Spending
My own stance on this issue became fully-formed around 2001 I think. In fact I think it was just days before Sept 11. It was when Donald Rumsfeld said something like "We don't exactly know where 1.2 TRILLION in Defense spending went..."
In my view the government doesn't deserve another red cent until they at least can transparently account for what we give them (best case), or at least lie about convincingly....
The Woman has False Premises
Turd,
Such a big topic but I will take a stab- I'll keep it to simple ratios and give you my biases.
She seems earnest and sincere, and I am always ready to discuss issues with both sides of the aisle if we are of good spirit and assume good intentions. But (I must have some Dutch in me) don't jack with me, intentionally lie or set mind-traps.
My bias- constitutional conservative, leaning libertarian. Father of 3 small children. 50 y.o. with doctorate degree.
First, let's dispense with the false assumptions from the video. The woman was breathlessly going on and on about how we won't have this and won't have that. The premise was to balance the 2011 budget in one year. This is a reckless amount of cutting and unnecessary. 1.3 T of 3.6 T equates to 36% of the budget. Huge! To be honest, most American families and businesses could probably make that 36% level of cuts in an emergency, but we are in a Gordian knot in the U.S. mainly due to the fact that the ridiculous size of government 'contributes" to such a large amount of GDP (about 40% I believe, but France is worse, about 55% heading toward 60%- and this is fatally heading toward a communist state). Thus we have to appropriately wean off government so as not to collapse our economy and keep growth moving in order to sustain revenues to pay off debt. This woman's approach is the effect we are watching happening in real time in Spain, Greece, and is a non-starter.
We should express everything in terms of national GDP. Let's take 15T as a round figure. 1.3 T is 8.7% of GDP. This is too big and reckless. So we can ignore all the hysteria from the woman after that point. Hell, Obummer and congress have yet to produce a budget with any cuts, only slowdowns in increases at best (that includes Ryan, don't get me started about Obummer).
I'll try to sum up the Hrunner Plan in bullet points
1- Agreement from both parties on target of debt to GDP. This seems to be the critical metric that gets a nation into trouble or keeps it out of trouble. Reinhart and Rogoff, not to mention the Eurozone inclusion level think the right number is between 50% to 60%. Our current debt to GDP is about 102% last time I checked. That means 60% is the target to get to.
That means right now if we could wave a magic wand to get to that number we would have to pay off 6T immediately. That's how much we start in the hole. I'm ignoring SS, medicare obligations, stated to be 53T, but that's over decades so I am conveniently ignoring them based on my near term approach.
2- Don't fool yourselves, conservatives- every cut in government is money out of someone's pocket, out of the economy and is pain. That's why we should never have gotten here in the first place. The key is to replace Government GDP with Private GDP and investment (remember, taxes on capital gains takes investment money out of play) during the transition. This takes time since jobs and whole industries have to be created (that actually make goods and services that people want and need) during the transition. You need time. Time to build facilities. Time to invent things like the internet. That's why the breathless woman is way off base and is trying to propose something that is reckless.
3- Start a program of government cuts immediately. 1% of GDP is my working number so as not to harm the economy (see above). This is 150 billion. At this rate, by cuts alone using 2011 dollars, 9 years and the budget is balanced. Very reasonable. I think we will do even better with revenue increases (see next bullet). But remember we still have the 6T overhang to get to that 60% target debt (9T), plus debts are accumulating on our way to the 9 year mark. But our GDP should grow also. Very crude calculations means it will take another 40 years to pay off the 6T (6 / 0.15) at this level of cuts. Note that bipartisan Simpson-Bowles commision suggested a 3:1 cuts to tax increase ration. David Stockman's group is in the same ballpark, may be even higher ratio if I recall at 5:1. 2% of GDP (300 billion) means 4.3 years to balanced and 20 years respectively. Maybe I would rethink raising that 1% GDP limit to 2% if I thought the economy could handle it.
4- Increase revenues. Let us stop all the childishness and realize that Hauser's Law is obeyed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausers_Law. Max target tax revenues will always be 19.5% or less of GDP. I believe current rates are 15-16%, so there is room for tax increases according to Hauser. 19.5% of 15T is 2.9 T per year, so 600 billion greater than the current 2.3 T. Adding the 600 billion to the 150 billion is 750 billion net delta. Balanced budget in 2 years. 6T overhang paid off in 8 years. Great but very hard. Both improvements faster if we cut more like 300 billion. However revenues of 17% is more reasonable in the short term, again to avoid the economy shock of raising taxes too fast. 2.55 T revenues (250 billion surplus plus 150 billion cuts) means positive 400 billion net change, balanced in 3.25 years, overhang paid off in 15 years. Now we are cooking.
5- Cutting- as a conservative I have views on what the proper role of government is. See the constitution. Congress should first agree on the math above. Next, decide how you want to spend your money. Your budget is your budget. If you want to give free breakfast to children and leave the borders open, then make that choice and case to the American people, transparently. I would like to get government out of education (college loans have massively distorted the market i.e. price of college), gradeschool education. Out of farm subsidies, oil subsidies. Out of yes retirement and healthcare eventually (this is a much bigger separate topic, but anything can be unwound). Stick to basics of military, coinage, border control, food inspectors, air traffic control, and you will have plenty of money. I'm not a zero government zealot. Just stop doing things because they are nice to do, not have to do. I do believe there are selected areas where government can work- mainly information collection and display (databasing etc), policing such as food inspection and some limited basic science areas. No applied science like Solyndra. This sounds draconian because we are not used to any other system. But the efficient use of massive amounts of freed money plus American creativity would generate an amazing economy (as it once was).
6- Revenues- start over with a flat tax. Pick a rate when applied to every tax payer, rich or poor pays the same. Exclude only folks below the poverty limit. I want everyone with skin in the game. Keep this simple and you won't have nearly as much cheating. I've never understood why we should penalize success with higher marginal rates. You make more, you pay more. That's "fair". Now every citizen has an interest in responsible budgets. I would be willing to discuss a national sales tax instead of income tax, not in addition to. It is more regressive on poorer people though, but easier to administer. No capital gains tax (you've already paid taxes once on income, and I want you to invest extra savings into new businesses and create jobs), zero corporate tax, no mortgage deductions, no charitable deductions. Take your income and multiply by 15% (or whatever the multiplier is each year).
7- Wind down social security and medicare. A combination of means testing, reducing benefits, health savings accounts, in the immediate term, with the goal to wind them down. It's a corrupted, FDR frankenstein monster. We will be amazed as a country how efficient and cheap medical care would become without government involvement (see autos, clothing, powertools, you name it). Without withholdings, we will have so much extra money to save and invest, and have to freedom to directly spend on healthcare, as each sees fit. Separate topic, will take 20-30 years.
That's my outline, Turd
Peace,
This Violates the DImon Principle.... Man am I laughing...
(Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase & Co said it has taken an unexpected market loss in a trading book after a hedging strategy failed. Since the end of March, the company's Chief Investment Office "has had significant mark-to-market losses in its synthetic credit portfolio," the company said in a filing late on Thursday. Chief Executive Jamie Dimon called the mistakes "egregious" and apologized to stock analysts on a conference call that the company suddenly scheduled after making the disclosure in a quarterly filing to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. "This violated our principles," Dimon said. "This trading violates the Dimon principle." The Chief Investment Office is an arm of the bank that JPMorgan has said is used to make broad bets to hedge its portfolios of individual holdings, such as loans to speculative-grade companies.
the Quayle are preparing to flush
are you prepared to accept your destiny and line up for baloney sandwiches and grule?
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cfp-radio/2012/05/10/the-hagmann-hagmann-report-with-steve-quayle-and-hawk