SHIT FIRE!  The lawyers will be busy for years trying to track down the multitudes of ownership and claims on silver bullion bars and gold bullion bars while the paper markets collapse, COMEX and LBMA default and physical metals skyrocket to unfathomable prices.  This will obviously implicated the equities markets as faith in the system is finally pushed over the limits and the hedgies and big investement firms all scramble for the last remaining pieces of phys on the Planet Earth.  Oh yeah, the mine stock owners will benefit immensely and the shorts will be methodically burnt to ashes.  Get you AU and AG while it's cheap and don't forget the 3-6 months of food, water, supplies and some kind of protection for you and your family.

This weeks silver cot reports shows the market shrinking. Negatives across the board. Appears that everyone is leaving the market.

You've been a member 8 minutes and you are already promoting your own site? Good luck with that here 

After MFing Global, Turd, I think you are correct. Or at least prudence would dictate, that your money is not safe at a brokerage.

Alas, some people are not always smart. They will refuse to believe the markets are crooked, even with the evidence right in fron of them. They can scuff at a one off event. "Oh, that won't happen to me."

What you are watching is a slow-motion train wreck. MFG, while horrendous, only stresses the system. What your gaming will take another clearing house collapse. Then it will be "Kate, bar the door!" one event is easy to ignore. Two, impossible!

With the stress on the system, another MFG is going to happen. How can it not? Did the banks learn from AIG? MFG? No. The next event, and there will be a next event, will be due to the rehypothion allowed in London, or the counter-party risks associated with CDS. Or, a combination. Let's not forget the time bomb that's is CDSs.

Once investors loose confidence in the markets, that their money is not safe, watch the exits. Yes, this applies to the PMs. But I doubt it will be isolated to the PMs. It will be all markets, and all fiat paper.

Why the CB raid on gold this week? Gold was not near an all time high. Why knock it down, again? The see what's to come. I think they are trying to keep things together for Christmas.

So, should you buy some puts on the GLD? So, that is an option right?

You are thinking of Polonium poisoning.

I'll PM you some authors/titles while im on this trip. If you dont mind, please PM me so ill have a reminder.

JPM and the gang will bait silver specs back into the market as many times as they can. This is why I expect a strong silver rally in the next 3-4 months to occur, they/JPM need to give the appearance that the market is working again to keep the system functioning as long as possible.  I expect JPM will "sweeten the pot" for those who play at the comex casino for a short time, only to take the honey away when the specs get overconfident again. 

Turd, think you are right.  Paper PMs will go down in price, the markets are broken beyond repair, nobody trusts anyone anymore.  But before stackers get too excited, the physical will not be sold at that price.  Either premiums will jump, big time, or LCS will close up shop and go on vacation.  That is what I saw last time we had the big drop.  I don't even trust buying online and "waiting for delivery".  If TSHTF, I don't expect delivery services to be able to protect goods.  

Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember when truck jackings were common in the 70s.  When things get bad  enough, the truck jackings will start again.  Like in banana republics,  high value things will start to be paid for at the time of delivery and not a second sooner.  Civilization is a very fragile thing.  One can't take for granted that systems will work the way they have before.  Yikes!  What a week this should be!

I like where your heads at regarding JPM sweeting the pot.  I think I may just hold off selling that extra 100oz bar.  I was planning to see so I could gain 10-15 ounces on a price hit and a rebuy.  But I HOPE you are right!

@all - Call me a crybaby, but I'm reading the thread and feel like some of my best lines from Saturday are being stolen

Call me a whambulance.

Do we all still think that at least Sprott's funds and CEF are safe to hold???

PS - C'mon Turd, just a little more info - Can't you give us a little hint on who's telling you that Au is trading phys at 1950????? Pretty please???

Are brokerage firms required to withhold tax and early withdrawal penalties when a customer prematurity liquidates IRA?  In the light of all things learned here I've  to make some decisions.  Thanks!  

If what you say is true, I would actually (were I the EE/Comex/etc) try to RAISE prices, or at the very least, completely halt suppression for some time, in order to bring back confidence.  Why would I want my game to die?  If it does die, it means we are near the end game.  I would also look to settle the suits as quickly as possible since the costs to make the investor whole are small compared to the loss of the game.  

http://my.news.yahoo.com/gold-buyers-tempt-greeks-facing-hard-times-0531...

"The gold price has risen 300 percent in the last five years," it says on its website, arguing that now is the time to sell before it falls again.

So they believe the price is going to fall, but out of the goodness of their heart are buying it.

@TF putting two and two together with you tonight.

Paper contracts are merely promises to pay and are not payment in and of itself.

The reality is that US Dollars are now also a promise to pay and not payment in and of itself.

Since the FRB are playing with the valuation of the USD itself, any trade of USD for gold or silver bullion would appear to have significant short-term variability in USD price per ouce of gold or silver.

I see that USD price fluctation at Comex.

However, the events of the last six weeks also significantly illustrate the fact that the settlement process for commodities contracts is unstable.

The conclusion of these facts is that the aristocracy is clamping down on the ability of the peons and paupers to buy silver and gold.

It is increasingly apparent to me that the citizens of the US and other "free" nations will need to enforce by law the ability of people to buy gold and silver.  

You call it "the cartel".  I call it the global aristocracy.  These globalists appear to be highly involved with the Euro Parliament and appear to run with tyranny and Machiavelli in mind, instead of democratic principles and human equality in mind.

The disassociation of the physical price compared to the paper price can be seen in the escalating premiums for gold bullion one ounce coins.  In this area the premium for gold coins has escalated from $40-$50 range to the $65-$100 range.  Therefore, the cartel does not block our ability to buy gold by outlawing the transaction, but it will be increasingly hard as the gold and silver price escalates higher and higher.

I believe this is the play.

They are letting the under class play on the paper markets.  But, as we woke up and started to take delivery, the cartel has broken the delivery system in order to prevent the emptying of the vaults.

The HSBC action is only one step in validating the prior statements of many who argued that something was wrong when the same solid ounce of gold is being hypothecated over and over.  This, I thought, was the crux of the weakness that allows men like Eric Sprott to build their empires.  While the hypothecation at these gold vaults occurs, Sprott could run in and make money by simply not hypothecating on the inventory.

This is as it should be.  We should be stronger and more powerful as our assets are neither pleged nor used as collatoral.

It is the producers who should be worth more than those who simply stockpile or save.

Chris- you see a coming hit on the COMEX silver price?

another aspect...

If paper pm markets crash in an orgy of lost confidence, JP Morgan's oh so ancient and underwater short position suddenly becomes a very profitable trade after all :).  Very profitable.

Silverkid, if the head and shoulders breaks in the low 31's then I see 26 coming back into play. Then double bottom and off we go.

Turd, how could you get the facts so wrong when I just posted the real gist of the lawsuit?  I read the complaint and summarized it in the last thread. 

First, it is an interpleader.  Mr. Fane (not Fine) didn't sue anyone.  He, as a customer of MF Global, bought a futures contract and took delivery.  Before he specified which company/account the metal should be released to, MFG filed for bankruptcy and we found out about the theft of customer funds.  The trustee has taken the position that customers owning metal should not be treated better than dollar owning customers, or at least the bankruptcy judge should decide what to do with the metal held by MFG at various vaults.  Mr. Fane still wants HSBC to send the metal to his vault (Brinks).

HSBC, having been notified by the trustee that it believed the metals were "customer property" under the rules that apply to futures brokers in bankrupty, could not simply send the bars to Mr. Fane.  It threw the bars at the court.  

HSBC most certainly does not claim that it has any ownership interest in the bars.  That is the whole idea of an interpleader complaint -- "hey judge, more than one person is telling me what to do with this stuff, you decide so nobody can sue me."  I can send you the complaint if you like.

If one can buy at the lower paper price and demand physical delivery of the higher priced asset, then the system is broken. Turd says this can be done: ergo it is broken.

How far do they have to wack it to discourage delivery? 

If they wack it more buy.

Interesting.

I should add that there is no indication that any person other than Mr. Fane is claiming ownership of the numbered bars in question.  The MFG creditors like JPM would like to have customer property like Mr. Fane's metal be part of the bankruptcy estate available to creditors but everyone knows that won't happen because the law is that customers are first in line before creditors.  I believe the bankruptcy judge has already acknowledged that this is the rule that will be applied in MFG.  It is possible that Mr. Fane will lose a portion of his metal if the court rules that all customers (NOT CREDITORS LIKE JPM) must share the pain of the theft equally and he divvys up the pot of "customer property" among all customers.

Where do you see that ?

Why would my local dealer sell it to me for 1715 + 1,5% if it does 1950 on the market ?

http://arum-geld-gold.blogspot.com/2011/12/hypothecation-and-epic-short-squeeze.html

I also posted the largest miner short interest candidates.

I know we're at crunch point (possible diamond formation etc), but I'm not overly convinced we're due for a paper PM price crash just yet.

Option 1 = everyone runs away from paper PM's and the prices of paper Gold and Silver collapses thereby meaning JPM profits from their short paper positions and wins the papergame. Only problem is no one will sell physical unless they are desperate for cash so the price of paper vs physical would suddenly be exposed and even Joe Blogs on the street would realise that if paper PM's are worthless then so is Fiat! If that happened the whole banking/political system collapses. IMHO the EE are unlikely to want to allow that to happen yet, just in case they need canon fodder for a future neartime war.

Question = What price does JPM need to cover/breakeven on its Silver short position?

Option 2 = The EE creates uncertainty (as per existing EU/UK fiasco) in order to reduce its short positions in paper (longs reducing positions vs shorts covering scenario), whilst simultaneously accumulating as much physical as possible, even if this means allowing a sharp increase in the price (bearing in mind a lot of buyers at $45+ will still be looking to just get out of their current loss position flat). Easiest option for the EE at this moment in time, especially as they can still use rehypothecation to fund the payout, using virtually free paper fiat printing, provided their stated base asset price remains high enough. IMHO this seems to be the most logical option, particularly as the price of physical stays connected to the paper price, thereby maintaining sheeple confidence and allowing them to carry on the game!

Option 3 = War = same as option 2 plus the EE gets to provide a justifiable reason for the increase in paper/physical prices, justify more printing/debt, justify closing down the internet. and perhaps falseflag a couple of EMP explosions (hope you've all got spare ECU's for your vehicles). I sincerely hope the EE don't pull this one off, but they're capable of it