Disconnect
Though the market for paper silver continues to be manipulated and schemed to the advantage of JPM and the other bullion banks, the market for physical silver continues to rapidly increase with each subsequent price decline. The message that the physical market is giving to The Cartel is clear: You may still win the occasional battle but, in the end, you are going to lose the war.
In what may seem a contradiction, The Evil Empire should be grateful for the position limits written into law by the legislation known as The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. Though the CFTC has continually delayed imposition of the law, time is rapidly approaching where they will be forced to act. And, for the future solvency of the banks, not a moment too soon.
For it has become abundantly clear that global demand for physical silver is rapidly increasing. Demand is now so strong that traditional, seasonal patterns no longer have any impact. The primary driver of physical demand has now become the nonsensical price of paper silver, as determined by the Comex. Silver sales throughout 2011 have remained strong but, in a reversal of previous trends, demand has actually decreased as price rises and increased as price falls.
First, I offer you this from Harvey Organ and the "Silver Doctors":
"The silver metal is on fire with respect to sales. Last month we reported that the USA had sales of 4.4 million oz of silver. Today, the first day of recorded sales, the mint recorded over 3/4 of a million oz. My goodness demand is on fire!!!
The USA must use all silver produced from their mines first to make silver coins. The total supply from USA mining is around 40 million oz or about 3.3 million oz per month. After the mints are satisfied then all remaining supplies will satisfy the Comex, the jewelers, fabricators, and then investors who just wish to hoard silver bricks. If the mint uses up all of domestic supplies it must import silver from Canada and other nations.
But each nation uses its supply to satisfy its own jewelers and investors. No wonder the comex officials heads are spinning as their is a dearth of supplies around the world.
(courtesy silverDoctors)
US MINT SELLS NEARLY 3/4 MILLION SILVER EAGLES 1ST DAY OF OCTOBER!
from SilverDoctors by The Doc
Yesterday 10/3, the US Mint sold a whopping 737,000 Silver Eagle 1 oz coins in a single day!
To put this number in perspective, in Dec of 2010 with silver in the mid $20's, the US Mint sold a total of 1,772,000 Silver Eagles FOR THE ENTIRE MONTH OF DECEMBER! Yesterday, on 10/3, with the spot price of silver approximately $31/oz, the US Mint sold 737k Eagles, or 42% of sales for ALL of December 2010!
Sales totals for September are now in as well, at a massive 4,460,500 ounces for the month, the highest monthly sales total since January 2011 (during a massive take-down...seeing the connection here) by nearly 50%!!
If the yesterday's sales pace is continued throughout the rest of 2011 (not to mention the increase we would see with any further sell-off), the US Mint Silver Eagle sales would be nearly 50 Million ounces for the LAST QUARTER OF 2011!
In 2010, the US Mint sold a record 34.662 Million Silver Eagle 1 oz coins."
The current demand at the U.S. mint is simply a continuation of the strong demand seen in September:
http://news.coinupdate.com/monthly-silver-eagle-bullion-sales-more-than-double/
The demand is not just a U.S.-based phenomenon, either:
http://www.goldmoney.com/gold-research/demand-for-physical-gold-and-silver-increasing.html?page=3370
As The Cartel are forced to decrease and/or eliminate their long-standing short positions, prices on the Comex will be left to rise as they finally begin to reflect physical reality.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=24171
Now, don't go getting all carried away and excited...yet. The Cartel still has a significant short position that needs to be covered and there can be no assurance that the CFTC will even meet on October 18, much less impose the Dodd-Frank limits. However, this is all nothing but an eventuality. In the end, exponentially increasing demand for physical silver will drive price well into the triple digits. Anyone utilizing this temporary decline in prices to stack additional physical will be well rewarded and protected against the coming, global economic calamity.
9:35 am EDT UPDATE:
A rather bumpy morning but prices are higher. Let's see how the day goes. Keep in mind the tomorrow is BLSBS day. Here's an interesting article I found this morning. It even discusses the PAGE. Btw, there were some rumors about PAGE that I'm happy to disprove. NO, the PAGE opening is not being postponed. It is still on track for Q4 this year.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1317834732.php


Have a great day. TF


Comments
Apmex inventory
I was just looking at Apmex, and it looks like they still have a lot of silver in stock.
Could someone with Chrome run the numbers on their site so we can get a more complete view?
ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION
Ok fellow Turds now that I have your attention.
Right now on the History Channel Brad Meztler Decoded is doing a special on FORT KNOX !!!
Its un f ing real and has put a chill down my spine.
Make SURE EVERYONE WATCHES IT !!!!!!
Fantastic Turd
This is great news from a demand perspective. Also, nice post, that is a lot of very pertinent information condensed into one post, something you a very adept a doing. This forum is really fun Turd. The collective "Turdville" knowledge is something to watch roll through on a daily basis. Really something very unique and special you have here. Iron sharpens iron here at the "ville", and everyday that passes my convictions about PMs grow stronger (although they were never weak to begin with) Thanks Turd! Thanks All!
BSD
isn't
isn't gensler facing a congressional hearing of some sort on this tomorrow?
not that those weenies will actually make him act or anything...
recent discussions with
recent discussions with Canadian suppliers indicate supplies are low and restocking is a daily/weekly challenge. Physical is going mainstream.
Well earned tribute
Not sure if this fits in this Forum, but when you think about it, it probably fits anywhere. Thank you Mr. Jobs...you will be missed.
Re: ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION
Watched the show; Metzger is a bit too uptight. While riding in a van to scout out Ft. Knox, they freak when a Suburban with smoked windows and a large antenna flashed its lights behind them...WHILE THEY WERE IN THE PASSING LANE! The truck then passes without incident.
Nonetheless, it would have been nice to have mingled their show with Pisani's recent "visit".
yes, oct 6
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/09/cftcs-gensler-to-face-congress...
Secret panel can put
Secret panel can put Americans on "kill list'
http://old.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20111005/ts_nm/us_cia_killlist
Re: ATTENTION ATTENTION ATTENTION
Let me guess, the old vaults are full of canned hams..?
Youtube?
Is it on youtube yet?
Gold vs. Silver
I'm guessing one of the drivers is the simple fact that with its increasing price tag, gold is simply getting out of reach for a large percentage of the population. Individuals waking up to the idea that one needs to protect oneself have to turn somewhere. Who says silver isn't acting as a safe haven?
That's a bull market underpinning
Turd,
thank you for digging out the statistics. That's what underpins a bull market: strong increase in demand based on fundamentals (negative real interest rates) and undervalued price (compared to monetary base which has increased 3.5x vs. 2008).
We need to have courage to buy Silver at $30. Suppose the final price is $150. If we buy now, it will quintuple. If we wait until it goes back to $40, it will only quadrupled. If we wait until it goes even more to $50, it will only tripled. Be greedy at low prices, and skeptical at high prices.
Oh no you didn'
They're giving away commemorative gold on ebay lately. I'm picking up 1/4's and 1/2's in the $1500's net.
Just checked ASE monster boxes on APMEX. 22 of the 2011's in stock, the previous years have what they had last week - 1-3 boxes. Plenty of silver out there right now, not too sure what happens when/if we drop to $25 let alone $20. Madness...hide yo kids, hide yo wife!!!
Expecting government spending to lift the economy
Here is what happens to the economy if politicians keep on expecting government spending to stimulate it (rather than addressing debt level, economic competitiveness, and disparity of wealth):
@ Dr. Durden
I'll tell you what happens when/if we drop to $25, let alone $20....I burn through what dry powder I have left and seriously consider leverage buying (strictly speaking physical here)!
Excellent TF
Makes me want to order a couple more tubes of ASE's.
A tube of AGE's would be awesome to order. Someday maybe.
As I posted in the forums...
Tulving announced they are moving 100,000 oz per working day on average since Sept 23! This is a massive amount of silver moving out of Tulving and into customer hands. Remember: Tulving is one of the big dealers, like APMEX and CMI...
Don't forget Tulving is still sold out of 90% coins. APMEX has a limited supply of 90% after being sold out most (or all?) of last week. Many large dealers are running short on 100 oz bars as well. APMEX was nearly sold out last week and was doing backorders on what they could. Provident metals entirely sold out of 100 oz (just added some more today, it appears). Tulving only lists a few 100 oz bars...
Bill Haynes at CMI said on KWN that premiums on even 90% were going up... looks like he's right as usual...
Physical is saying something. Pay attention fellas....
The Gold Problem - 1976
Former Secretary of Agriculture, Ezra T. Benson made this assessment back in 1976. Forgive the lengthy quote, but it has some citations about the role of silver, hyperinflation, etc. and seems eerily relevant to today's events:
"The pending economic crisis that now faces America is painfully obvious. If even a fraction of potential foreign claims against our gold supply were presented to the Treasury, we would have to renege on our promise. We would be forced to repudiate our own currency on the world market. Foreign investors, who would be left holding the bag with American dollars, would dump them at tremendous discounts in return for more stable currencies, or for gold itself. The American dollar both abroad and at home would suffer the loss of public confidence. If the government can renege on its international monetary promises, what is to prevent it from doing the same on its domestic promises? How really secure would be government guarantees behind Federal Housing Administration loans, Savings and Loan Insurance, government bonds, or even social security?
"Even though American citizens would still be forced by law to honor the same pieces of paper as though they were real money, instinctively they would rush and convert their paper currency into tangible material goods which could be used as barter. As in Germany and other nations that have previously traveled this road, the rush to get rid of dollars and acquire tangibles would rapidly accelerate the visible effects of inflation to where it might cost one hundred dollars or more for a single loaf of bread. Hoarded silver coins would begin to reappear as a separate monetary system which, since they have intrinsic value would remain firm, while printed paper money finally would become worth exactly it's proper value--the paper it is printed on! Everyone's savings would be wiped out totally. No one could escape.
"One can only imagine what such conditions would do to the stock market and to industry. Uncertainty over the future would cause the consumer to halt all spending except for the barest necessities. Market for such items as television sets, automobiles, furniture, new homes, and entertainment would dry up almost overnight. With no one buying, firms would have to close down and lay off their employees. Unemployment would further aggravate the buying freeze, and the nation would plunge into a depression that would make the 1930s look like prosperity. At least the dollar was sound in those days. In fact, since it was a firm currency, its value actually went up as related to the amount of goods, which declined through reduced production. Next time around, however, the problems of unemployment and low production will be compounded by a monetary system that will be utterly worthless. All the government controls and so-called guarantees in the world will not be able to prevent it, because every one of them is based on the assumption that the people will continue to honor printing press money. But once the government itself openly refuses to honor it--as it must if foreign demands for gold continue--it is likely that the American people will soon follow suit. This in a nutshell is the so-called 'gold problem.”
Wynter up again...who is listening >?
She / He ? is calling for 45 $ oz by November 30 2011. However not respect going her/his way..
Silver will be above $45 before November 30, 2011 3-Oct-11 02:00 pm
Our group GUARANTEES that silver will trade above $45 by November 30, 2011. No caveats, no excuses. The charts arent saying so but we are stating that silver will be above $30 by November 30, 2011.
To Blythe and The Morgue, we know what is going on and know with CERTAINTY that you cannot stop us.
For those short on patience we will demonstrate that The Morgue is not the only one who can spike the price of silver!!! We will be spiking silver in the same manner as The Morgue did soon. Don't necessarily assume that the spike will be up, so watch those stop losses.
.............do da, do da.............
Cramer show today
I never watch the show( I swear ). He interviewed Sanders about how ineffectual the CFTC was in regards to the evil oil speculators who are responsible for the high price of gasoline. They said if it wasn't for lax regulation oil would be much lower due to excess supply and lower demand.
Also alluded that the price of other commodities (corn,wheat) would be lower as well, if Gensler and the CFTC would do their job. Cramer said Obama should order Gensler to regulate them. GMAFB!
There's an old saying that whatever a banker says is a lie and the opposite is true. Well this whole interview was exactly back asswards.
No mention of gold/silver/copper margin hikes. No mention of margin decreases on financials. Whatever they say just flip it around and you have the truth. Not news to those in T-Ville, but I had to vent.
BTW, ditto Benroberts accolades for all those posts today.
Bring it on TF...
Great post. Thanks for being a steady, clear and strong voice on this particular issue. Some people don't seem to really understand what it means.
Demand will trump everything else in the end.
@ECO DIS
i didn't know it was news that the CIA kills people
Thanks Turd, those are eye
Thanks Turd, those are eye opening sales numbers. I checked out Silver Doctors site and according to their chart, as of October 3rd, the US Mint has sold 34.14m ASEs. Just 1/2 million shy of the record 34.662m sold in 2010. That was two days ago. If sales have continued anywhere close to Monday's 3/4 million mark, then I'd say we have a new record with months to spare.
@DPH - Little by little, pal.
@DPH - Little by little, pal. Then you can buy an empty AGE tube on EBay and pretend you bought them all at once!
There is more about this than
There is more about this than just the financial aspect I feel. Just trying to balance things out when I smell fear turning to greed.
and a little fist pumping track entitled something like "Live to Fight another day" that makes me want to go for a surf today :)
Sympathy for Gen-Y
Being a Gen-Xer, I heard a lot of talks looking down at our Gen-Y youth, such as they are too lazy, too easy to use credit cards and get into debts, too embedded in the virtual world and not enough real world, too entitled, etc.
Recently I have grown more symptathetic toward them. Some of the complaints about them are true. But we must also consider that the recent economic hardship falls especially hard on them. Their true unemployment rate is close to 25%, due to recession and also due to competing for jobs with boomers. They are saddled with massive student loans that they have to repay, courtesyof financialization of our economy which they didn't cause.
Looking at the OWS movement, quite a few of them get what's wrong with our country. I think some of them are bright and well informed. Certainly I didn't know as much when I was their age.
Some of them face enormous challenges to start a career. For example, some want to start farming, but it just takes so much money to be a farmer these days. Take a look at the following piece
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/23/140631752/high-costs-make-it-harder-to-gro...
It's not that they do not have idea or are not creative. But things are stacked against them. I saw the following project on Solar Decathlon's competition, and came away impressed with the ingenuity of our youngsters.
There are a lot more projects like this. Very impressive.
My main point is that as an older generation (be it Gen-X or boomers), we need to help our youngsters to succeed in the economy, and help shape the economic structure that is more accommodative to them to start with a good career. This blog may be about precious metals, but either we succeed or fail as society and as an economy, it is going to be beyond PM stacking. It will depend on us working together with Gen-Y to get our hands dirty and produce something useful.
Maybe this will
Maybe this will resonate.
Anonymous Vows NYSE Attack to Support Wall Street Protests - Bloomberg
Oct 5, 2011
"Anonymous, a group of self-styled hacker-activists behind attacks on corporate and government websites, vowed to support the Occupy Wall Street protests by erasing the New York Stock Exchange “from the Internet” on Oct. 10."
Change may be coming sooner than we expect.
Bulls and Bears
On the other side of the Wynter coin is SC from Cyclical Market Analysis, who was calling for $4 silver next year (revised I believe to $6.50). Interestingly enough if you average both of these outlying predictions you get $25.75, which seems to be about what everyone else is expecting and where we'd likely see massive buying and possibly shortages in coin stores as well as the major websites.
http://cyclicalmarketanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/09/silver-collapse-resumes-2012-target-650.html
Silver is in complete control
Silver will make it's own way in It's own time. It is not going to be because the world fiat system (black horses) failed in their efforts to control Silver. Silver is in complete control, It's timing is, and will be perfect. Keep watching, and stacking, and 2tim2.15ing in preperation for the zech6.6 horses that go forth after them....
APMEX - Silver
I track 100 oz bars every 12 hours. Not seeing anything unusual. September 25th - the recent low - they were down to 548 bars. Right now, over 1,000 bars available of 100 oz.
5-Oct 9:31pm Current - 762 Backorder - 256 Total - 1018 Silver Price - 30.27
Each generation stands on the
Each generation stands on the shoulders of the one before it.
I'll leave the thinking about the implications of what this means to the individual.
The philosophy of the school room in one generation will be the philosophy of government in the next.
Abraham Lincoln
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Ronald Reagan
We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country.
Thomas Jefferson
We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Each generation wants new symbols, new people, new names. They want to divorce themselves from their predecessors.
Jim Morrison
Occupy Wall Street: Video
Occupy Wall Street: Video Allegedly Shows NYPD Officer Striking Protesters With Baton
"Just before 8 p.m. Wednesday, reportedly at the corner of Broadway and Wall Street, a New York Police Department officer appeared to turn on a throng of activists with the Occupy Wall Street movement, hitting them with a baton. A video posted hours later to YouTube shows the officer wielding the baton with two hands -- like a baseball bat -- as he swings at and strikes the demonstrators. At one point, a woman can be heard shrieking in the background.
The white-shirt cop, most likely a supervisor, had stood next to at least a half-dozen other officers, including other department brass. The video shows the officer appearing to nudge a spectator out of the way, back up and raise his baton. He then gets off three swings before the crowd appears to surge toward him -- digital cameras and video recorders held high.
Queue the Honorable Richard J Daley - "Gentlemen, get the thing straight once and for all – the policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder."
There sure is a lot of buying
There sure is a lot of buying going on.If they take the price lower,then I think this will increase.The physical market is not lacking in confidence.I think its increasing in belief.Even if it just comes down to supply and demand.I think the public might be just about to corner the market.If the hedge funds wake up to this.Then the disconnect will be complete.
http://nationaleconomist.blogspot.com/2011/09/silver-sold-out-at-sprott-...
This was on Bullionvault site Monday.Second time in a week.
Notice on Silver
As you will know, on the BullionVault Order Board we only sell physical bullion which we own in the vault.
After exceptionally high demand, our stock of silver in the London vault is running low. We have further substantial deliveries scheduled for 05/10/2011.
Please be aware that in this situation offer prices can be unusually high as some sellers may seek materially higher margins than we ordinarily do.
BullionVault
@ Shill.
. I saw this also and more specifically that it will commence at 3:30 PM. Best..
Last one tonight A good head
Last one tonight for those in The US (it is midday here)
A good head and a good heart are always a formidable combination.
Nelson Mandela
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb.
Nelson Mandela
There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its children.
Nelson Mandela
I dunno
I don't think Gen-Xers were exactly paragons of fiscal discipline. Although the early '90s for the recent college grad was a nightmare that I never forgot. I never ever ran up a credit card and I never ever spent much on anything. Didn't take many vacations, I knew this time that's upon us was coming.
I imagine if the economy had collapsed in early 90s like it looked like it was going to (it really did look like for a brief time that it was all going to go down the drain), we'd be protesting like the Gen-Yers are now. Then the Fed got scared and firehosed the system with credit in 1995 and never really stopped since. It's at the point now where the credit doesn't work anymore. It has been a good what? 16 years? Party's over.
It just happened to catch them now, and if I was their age at this time, I'd probably be doing the same stuff. When you've got nothing to lose, why not?
APMEX on JM bars
I bet you that APMEX does not have the 590+ JM 100oz bars you're using in your numbers. They instead included their current inventory along with the promise of delivery for incoming JM bars.
Regardless of what the APMEX situation is... Tulving is sold out. People that buy in bulk don't buy from APMEX... premiums are way too high.
Good Quotes
Hammer, thanks for the good quotes you posted. Here is my favorite:
7 Deadly Sins (Mahatma Gandhi):
1. Wealth Without Work
2. Pleasure Without Conscience
3. Knowledge Without Character
4. Commerce (Business) Without Morality (Ethics)
5. Science Without Humanity
6. Religion Without Sacrifice
7. Politics Without Principle
cot report
and why did the morgue cover so much of their shorts recently?
Thanks Turd
The first Apple computer went on sale in July 1976.
.
Retail cost - $666.66. Sounded like a hell of a deal at the time.
.
RIP Mr. Jobs (However, if just in case you are one of 'them', then i take it back)
Fried(e)
.
"We're already creating the superior beings, I think we lost the battle to the machines long ago,"
"We're going to become the pets, the dogs of the house."
"Every time we create new technology we're creating stuff to do the work we used to do and we're making ourselves less meaningful, less relevant.
"Why are we going to need ourselves so much in the future? -Wozniak
.
Eggs says - Then why are you making these mostly *useless* bulshit products to make US -people - HUMANS - less relevant you asshole? Dont create 'that' technology then; we WANT! to be *meaningful* thank you very fuckin much.
.
@atarangi
Kia ora!
Man I hope that shaking stops for you guys sometime soon...
Yes, great to be here amongst like minded individuals - after 6 or so years in this game, it was getting a bit lonely hanging out just with JSmineset, trader Dan and a few others.
Don't know if you're just stacking or trading or whatever, but I'm at the casino most days if there's anything you want to discuss while most of these others are sleeping.
Kia kaha!
I wouldn't listen too much to Steve Jobs
The big things he had was the Reality Distortion Field and a knack for knowing what the public was ready for, when it was ready for it and how much he could gouge the public for it.
AAPL won't die immediately, but they have booked passage on the SS Mediocrity, with a cabin next door to MSFT. It takes a long time for a megacorp to die, anything a megacorp does, it does it sloooooowwwwwwwllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy.
Funny how Jobs dies right when it looks like the whole stock market is teetering on the edge.
Disclaimer: The words on
Disclaimer: The words on this poster does not represent my thoughts. If management should see fit to remove it, I'll understand. However, this represents the thoughts of some of the protestors on Wall Street
Sobering
I first found it at Jesse's. It's been picked up everywhere.
US exposure to Europe approx 2.7 trillion.
The domino effect.
Chocked full of sobering info. Worth the read.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/europe-debt-crisis_b_996528.html
Hundredth Monkey
When 2 or 5 or a dozen monkeys know a thing, they alone know it. But when 100 monkeys know a thing, ALL the monkeys know it. When will the hundredth monkey in this country know? Six months, a year, 18 months...?
from Wiki:
The hundredth monkey effect is a supposed phenomenon in which a learned behavior spreads instantaneously from one group of monkeys to all related monkeys once a critical number is reached. By generalization it means the instantaneous, paranormal spreading of an idea or ability to the remainder of a population once a certain portion of that population has heard of the new idea or learned the new ability.
Re: History Channel Gold At Fort Knox
I caught the gold at fort knox special, along with the episode before about the freemasons and alien encounters. Interesting stuff to be making its way into the collective conscious in these times...
If this is airing on the history channel, with the type of information that was revealed on it, namely the gold manipulation by western banking cartel.... GATA interview, and the financial engineer interview....
My opinion is that TPTB are prepping the public for an audit/gold mania.... as gold will be on the mind of the public again in this next leg-up.... with rising price brings rising attention.
Will they show tungsten? Will they show nothing? Interesting days ahead.
Why is this on the history channel? Or is this legitimate investigation (I may doubt it, as the history channel's perspectives seem to offer explanations, but many seem a bit construed).... I don't know what to think after watching it... but seems like interesting timing given the days. Maybe it is just on the mind of others.
1 Million Ounces in First 2 Days
Thanks Turd.
USE sales slowed slightly yesterday, but were enough to surpass 1 Million ounces for the first 2 days of October!
Never underestimate the power of the cartel in the short term- but long term- that's another story and its all about supply and demand.
While silver could go lower from here and test the long term trendline as you suggest, any silver bought today under $30 will look like a steal in a few years....much like any silver bought under $10 in 2008 does today.
-Doc
Had you bought apple stock instead of products...
Interesting chart comparing stock and apple products. Mind blowing, actually... Over a year old, so add roughly 35%..?
http://kyleconroy.com/2010/04/apple-stock
@Scott J. Fort Knox.
.. Scott. I always watch these things. Nothing new to most of us, I have always believed that this place is empty. The fascinating part to me is that the populace will "freak out" when they realize that this vault is empty, doesn't make much sense if GOLD isn,t important anyway.. " Some come to laugh the past away, some come to make it just one more day, whichever way your pleasure tends, if you plant ice you are going to harvest wind"