The PAGE Is Turning

Our Australian friend, "Turdle", recently brought all of this to my attention. What we are about to discuss will truly have significant and consequential effects on the global trading and pricing of gold and, by extension, silver. Pondering the potential impacts of the Pan Asia Gold Exchange will require some time and mental clarity. If you feel you currently have appropriate levels of both, then let's proceed with the discussion.

First, some background. The Turd has been of the opinion for years that the forward-thinking Chinese are not necessarily planning for tomorrow, they are planning for 20 years from tomorrow, 50 years from tomorrow and 100 years from tomorrow. For example, if you listened to the "Time Monk Radio" interview of Jim Rogers, you heard me ask Jim about the possible, future "gold-backing" of the renminbi by the Chinese. I believe that one of the reasons the Chinese central bank is buying gold is to accumulate gold reserves for this purpose. Of course there are other reasons, too, but at some point in the future, China will sponsor a new regional or global currency that will be at least partially backed by gold. As part of this plan, Beijing is currently developing alternative futures and physical metals markets. The Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange is part of this plan. The soon-to-be-opened Pan Asia Gold Exchange is another.

It is this Pan Asia Gold Exchange (PAGE) that is the short term game-changer. By providing the world with a physical settlement and pricing structure outside of the bounds of the current LBMA/Comex scheme, the PAGE may, once and for all, allow for true price discovery of physical metal. The PAGE will make the current pricing system obsolete as global investors seek true physical metal that is unencumbered by leasing, titling and derivatives. A good starting point for your understanding of this concept is this 15-minute video from James Turk's GoldMoney site. Watch it right now.

http://www.goldmoney.com/video/naylor-leyland-turk-interview.html

Turk went on to have a follow up conversation Richard Poulden. Mr. Poulden is the Director of Power Capital Financial Trading. PCFT is the only private company allowed as an investor in the exchange. It's safe to say that he knows a little bit about the exchange, its dynamics and its opening date.

http://www.goldmoney.com/video/poulden-turk-interview.html

Now, I need you to think about what this all means and what the ramifications will be for the price of precious metals in 2012. Many have wondered how gold could ever possibly trade to Santa's target of $12,000/ounce. Under the current price suppression scheme of fractional bullion banking, it would be a significant, if not insurmountable, challenge for it to get there. If the PAGE succeeds in becoming the preeminent pricing mechanism, $12,000/ounce may prove to be a conservative estimate. No, gold won't trade to $12,000 in 2012. It might make it there by 2020, however. In this context, consider, too, the news last week that Venezuela was repatriating their gold from London. Does El Commandante want to get his little fingers on his gold before the LBMA house of cards crashes to the ground? It's what the hell I'd be doing if I were him.

My questions for you are some of the same that Senor Chavez undoubtedly asked himself:

1) Do you own physical gold?

2) Where is it stored?

3) Is it in an "allocated" or "unallocated" account?

4) If it's allocated, have you ever actually seen it? Have you ever actually touched it? Have you ever tried to withdraw it?

5) Do you own shares of GLD and/or SLV? Are you confident that they "own and hold" all of the gold they claim?

6) Do you trade leveraged paper ETFs like AGQ or UGL? What is your plan should the Comex fail?

My answer to these questions is simple: Physical is physical and paper is paper. You don't own it unless you hold it. Those relying upon the permanence of the status quo are about to receive a very rude wake-up call. Those of us who own and stack physical metal are about to see the fiat-conversion value of our metals skyrocket. The time is now for you to prepare for this historically transformative event.

332 Comments

swmnguy's picture

Hmm...

Isn't this the sort of thing that starts wars?

Eric Original's picture

I was sitting here for like 5

I'm sitting here for like 5 minutes thinking I could post "Second!!" , but I don't want to look like a dick.

I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

Turd!

same way I felt about posting "turd" in line

schmederling's picture

Chacez/Exchanges

Folks,

I remember reading somewhere , ( I will have to look) the Chavez thing was already a done deal and he as received all his gold - it was kept secret to avoid public awareness. Make scene to me - most big players make their move first and then announce it - not the other way around.

As for the exchanges the Rothschild are involved and you can bet they are helping set up the next war... they are playing both sides as they have for ever and profiting along the way.

71185208's picture

Got my Yellow Hat yesterday

If I can only figure out how to post the pic...

I tried dragging and dropping the pic but that didn't work...

Can anyone offer me some advice here? What am I missing? The pic shows when I drag and drop it into the comment space but it doesn't show after I save the comment...

Thanks

Edit: Aha...

timpa's picture

grow up

all you fellows that post first, second etc are children...

the_Pete's picture

Eric Original.... need a

Eric Original.... need a mirror?  wink  (tongue in cheek of course)

turdfan's picture

miners?

Turd, are you suggesting that mining shares should be sold now to buy physical gold?

Adventures's picture

My thoughts are based on history

I think you are correct that the Chinese think more in generations rather than day to day. Where the USA say "Time is Money", the China sees time as free so they take a longer view. Oh course this is my simplified view. They also almost always tell you what the intend to do. The problem is no one ever believes them or think it's a bluff. It happened during the Korean war before they got involved and on the Indian border incidents in the early 60's.

margaritatime's picture

eric

pffffftttt!!!! I just spit my drink on the keyboard LMAO.. Don't know why it was so funny, perhaps because I was in deep thought reading the Turd, then saw your post.. Back under my rock now.

Northern Border's picture

When ?

The real question is when does this occur ? 

I think I will feed my addiction and order up yet another monster box of eagles.  I would rather be 5 years too early than 1 day late.

NB

tyberious's picture

check

And mate! Question of the day. There seems to be a lot of, umm how shall i say, prodding towards all physical. I think having some miner equities and options accounts are still a good idea, as for me they provide cash liquidly and income. And to me my PM's are precious and will not be sold until the Dow = 1 oz Au or a new monetary system is born.

exiledbear's picture

The gold market has to expand somehow

The current structure is too small for an expanding bull market that will inevitably attract more and more players.

This is just another hallmark of the ongoing bull market in gold and how things always seem to work out to support the underlying trend.

I wouldn't be trusting the Chinese with your gold but as long as they're delivering physical, it's no worse than the weasels at the COMEX, etc. And might even be an improvement.

tyberious's picture

@timpa

Are you just jealous ?  I think is cool and a nice hold over from the old site :)

beardeus's picture

I'm calling that tomorrow is

I'm calling that tomorrow is a big day in the metals. Silver has putz around for too long. I just have that feeling.

September is going to be wild!

beinki's picture

Confucius says...

margaritatime's picture

hmmm

My opinion is short and simple:

The scarcity of an item is directly related to it's price / value. Anyone that thinks this has no impact on future prices is smokin'. The other question to ask is this: Do the larger players and CBs already know this impact? Of course they do. I think your estimate of 2020 is way too conservative. It indicates to me that another much larger train is leaving the station right across from ours... nuff said.

the_Pete's picture

@GDH

Use the image insert button at top of the Comment box.... wink  <--- next to this button

question's picture

the next war

Maybe we're already in the next war,  and it's an economic one, and it will be the first we lose?

China has been around for a long time, their plans do involve time spans that exceed the next quarter numbers. Maybe we are outclassed. Sure we have the big guns but maybe this time it is different. WTFDIK

This new exchange does give me hope for some reality to enter into the picture though. Imagine a reality based pricing structure to use for investment decision making.

Thanks Turd

Turdle GG's picture

Thanks Turd

You've done a great service by bringing PAGE to the attention of more people.

I know Ted Butler has been commenting frequently on his view that he big run-up in gold prices recently was caused by bullion banks covering shorts.  Maybe they see the writing on the wall, with PAGE a real threat?

I've sent your article to Ted so that he is aware of PAGE.

rock collector's picture

It can't just be gold going up....

It also will likely be a grand and profound realization that the dollar is crap.
I wish it wasn't so but it is.
At 58 yrs, with a memory that goes back to the 60's, I resent the hell out of what they have done to our dollar.
What's coming down the pike is going to be painful for many.
 

Pax Argentum's picture

"My answer to these questions

"My answer to these questions is simple: Physical is physical and paper is paper. You don't own it unless you hold it. Those relying upon the permanence of the status quo are about to receive a very rude wake-up call"

Very true, however there is a middle-ground in this argument, namely that of the allocated funds such as CEF and PSLV. Do I 'hold' the PMs I 'own' in these funds? The answer is of course no. Are they 'as safe' as if I had them in my own hands? Perhaps, maybe better as things stand today.
Both of these funds provide some benefits worth considering prior to simply taking delivery of a heavy box from UPS.
Both hold the balance of PMs in allocated status and in Canadian treasury vaults. While I am an American and love my country, I don't trust the men and women that run it with my wealth. An out-of-the-U.S. bank suits my particular level of paranoia.
Second, I don't have a zillion dollars worth of PMs (yet, as hyperinflation is still a future threat) but taking delivery of my physical is simply impractical in terms of storage and security.
Safe deposit box perhaps? Please see trust issue above as I don't believe a deposit box is any safer than my garage safe, and probably less so in the long run.

So for now, CEF and PSLV it is.....subject to change as circumstances dictate.

Pax

¤'s picture

Credit Crumbs

(ugh, last post from last thread)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I get into a lot more detail/concept in the beginning of that thread and some of it was in another post that spilled into CA's forum from that point forward.

My basic concept is that because the Fed. can do so,  they will print as much as they need to while still the reserve currency. They already plan on buying as much of our Treasury debt as possible so we don't have to pay ourselves back or they can just forgive the Treasury debt and write it off of their books. (The accounting stuff that is going on is crazy anyway. There's a reason they won't do a audit). We own about 70-75% of our own debt. China and others have about 25-30%. maybe less then that. We have no intention of paying ourselves back. What would be the point? Think about it.

I believe the Fed. will underwrite every single new mortgage there is and they will in essence qualify just about anyone that has a pulse so that all of the real estate on the market can be cleared and priced however low it has to be to be moved into a new homeowners hands who will pay a 30-50 year mortgage off at very low rates.

The Fed will of course have some "new" quasi govt. agency (fannie/freddie like) that they will create just for this program. All of the mortgages, where ever they may be originated from (banks) will be backstopped by the Fed. and essentially guaranteed that they won't get stuck with the mortgage. The Fed. ultimately gets the payments from everyone for supplying the money/credit and guaranteeing them against loss. Everyone will make money on this one to some degree that is involved in the chain of transactions that will occur from this. The Fed. gets all the loot and essentially holds title via the newly created mortgages  from newly created money. Presto!

The Fed. doesn't need to worry about the losses because they feel they can just print more money or credit and keep it off the balance sheet (that no one can see, ever.)

The Fed. can endure a unlimited amount of losses (as we have evidenced) and create as much paper credit (gaurantee the mortgages) as they want to because they have no intention of paying ourselves back. What would be the point, again?

If people embrace the concept of principal reductions (I'm sure they will) and super low rates or houses that are suddenly available that were out of reach and  expensive before and they now have access to  credit then I think the response will be overwhelming.  So  will be the money printing.

The Fed can create a paper mortgage document from thin air and receive a revenue stream for many, many years. I don't think it would take much for the Fed. or the Govt. to take total deed and ownership of any property whose documentation or clear title is in question. The Fed. can probably  just gaurantee the  title clear and free by decree I would imagine at this point the way things are going at this rate as were in desperation mode and it's obvious.

If anyone thinks that the Gov.t or Fed. doesn't have such powers to do such drastic things with land or properties, I would remind you of eminent domain..

CA's forum has more thoughts as they evolved.

A much, much smaller mortgage payment makes the prospect of accepting a lesser paying job then usual a bit more palatable and I think we would see people re-enter the work force taking lesser paying jobs. This is what they hope for and this is how they can accomplish some wage compression also  from what seems like a great re-fi opportunity but in reality is a desperation move by the Govt..

71185208's picture

Thanks Turd

It was just a guess that won me that hat, but I was excited when it arrived...

Maybe Turd will become a legend in due course, and that hat (and the signature) will be worth a pretty penny...

seadocks's picture

Pan Asia Gold Exchange

Turd has brought up some very valid points.  However, the LBMA/Comex has seen the same things, and are undoubtedly not going to take the usurpation of their authority laying down.

Consequently, in this high dollar chess game, what is the LBMA/Comex going to try to do to stop the PAGE.  Then, as any Chess player would try to anticipate: what will the PAGE do to overcome the efforts of the LBMA/Comex.

Even though we don't have much ability to change the implementations, this is not just an esoteric conversation.  Not only will this have an effect/determine the price of gold, but in addition, national borders will change,  countries will rise and fall, people groups all over the globe will be affected.  And most important, it will affect our own families.

Turd, this is a good exercise for your community.  I am anxious to see the thoughts that come out of  the discussion.

ScottJ's picture

Looks may be deceiving?

Offering this source for those who wish to ponder about some of the eastern connections to western world financials. This is about the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange, not the Pan Asian Gold Exchange. (Thanks for the note Turdle GG).

http://dont-tread-on.me/the-rothschilds-and-the-hong-kong-mercantile-exchange/

When I first looked into the HKMEx I was mainly looking to see if silver manipulators JP Morgan, Goldman or HSBC were involved. The good news, I did not see that they had any controlling or operational influence in the HKMEx. The worst thing I guess I found out of the list of board members was President Albert Helmig was a former VP of the NYMEX. The amount of information on the rest of the board is limited most likely because they are Chinese and English Google is limited. I then looked a little further to see who was paying the board.

I have discovered that Nathan Rothschild along with the People’s Bank of China created the privately owned Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange. According to MarketsWiki the HKMEx was founded by En+ Group. On the face of it, it looks like a Russian company is partnering with China as they strengthen ties inside of the anti-Hegemon. When you look at the board of En+ Group you see Nathan Rothschild is at the genesis of this new market that looks poised to take down the dollar.

Saif Gaddafi with Rothschild Minion Oleg Deripaska

Nathan Rothschild has had other deals with “enemies” of the Anglo American Empire. Recently, it has become apparent that Nathan Rothschild had deep financial ties with Muammar Gaddafi in Libya. The relationship was interesting since most of the world’s central banks are Rothschild controlled and Libya was one of the few nations not under the Rothschild control. Nat developed a relationship with Gaddafi’s son Saif, then when the time was right, Gaddafi would have to go.

.... article continued at link above

¤'s picture

Thank you TF and Turdle

yes

Shill's picture

28th

Sorry I am a kid at heart.

  1. BREAKING
  2. Brazil surprises with half-point rate cut to 12%

Are mining stocks a bargain to consider now?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Are-Mining-Stocks-A-Bargain-wscheats-82926659.html?x=0&.v=1

¤'s picture

ScottJ article above...

....is a must read and will really get you thinking about the overall structure of things.

Print it out and read.  Timely article by Scott as it directly relates to what might take place soon.

schmederling's picture

or maybe not?

We could enter a traditional trading season for the metals in the early fall........ or we could see the opposite... nothing stays the same forever. Look at GLD & SLI over August  - everyone was blindsided by the action.

We could very easily & quickly turn to a deflationary period and liquidation would turn quickly (2008) - I would head caution at the moment and see what will pay out.  The Fed may or may not announce easing ( they already have - with no interest till 2012) in Sept but will it be what is needed to prop up the markets?

IMHO  - I think that we will not see anything announced too soon the markets have not fallen..... the addict is not sick just yet. Injecting now would be like a junky just getting a fix... needing more and more with little results each time.

He/They (FED) will wait until we BEG for the injection (Money) therefore allowing it to pass with little resistance or questioning... that's my take for the shot to medium term...

Cheers,

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